AWD Front Differential Oil ....help!
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AWD Front Differential Oil ....help!
I've been trying for the last week to figure out what the heck is making a whining sound in the front end of my '96 AWD (243,000km). It is loudest at about 30-45MPH and sounds kind of like a the whine you get from snow tires on dry pavement (but that's not the case here.)
It's not the engine...sound doesn't change if I put it in neutral shut it off and glide) not the tires and I don't think is the tranny...sound is consistent through the gears. I've concluded that it must be the front differential making noise...possibly/probably low on oil.
Searched other posts and see that these units have been known to blow oil out the vent and that it needs to be filled with ATF...fine and dandy...but I've looked at it expecting to find a drain plug at the bottom and can find none. The only thing I can find is an allen head plug about half way up the passenger side of the casing.
Does this plug act as both the filling point and level indicator for the oil?
Somebody let me know quick! Leaving on a trip this weekend and need to try and solve this problem.
Thanks in advance.
It's not the engine...sound doesn't change if I put it in neutral shut it off and glide) not the tires and I don't think is the tranny...sound is consistent through the gears. I've concluded that it must be the front differential making noise...possibly/probably low on oil.
Searched other posts and see that these units have been known to blow oil out the vent and that it needs to be filled with ATF...fine and dandy...but I've looked at it expecting to find a drain plug at the bottom and can find none. The only thing I can find is an allen head plug about half way up the passenger side of the casing.
Does this plug act as both the filling point and level indicator for the oil?
Somebody let me know quick! Leaving on a trip this weekend and need to try and solve this problem.
Thanks in advance.
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Thanks...I'm pretty sure it's not from the power steering pump...been there done that, it is usually loud but I read that's not uncommon. It was whining a while back, but I found it low on oil, topped it up and it's OK now. Sound doesn't change when you turn the steering wheel at all...it used to when the pump oil level was low.
If it's not the differential, it very well may be the wheel bearing, that's the other issue high on my suspect list. The sound doesn't seem to come from one wheel or the other though. It is louder inside than outside and seems to be "sort of" on the driver's side....where the diff is located. I can't spin either front wheel when I jack up the vehicle because of the AWD. I can't feel any play in the wheel though....maybe the bearing is just not bad enough to make it "sloppy" though.
I'll grab some ATF tomorrow and top it up. Mind you, I guess if the gears in it are damaged it may not stop my whining.
Let you know what happens.
If it's not the differential, it very well may be the wheel bearing, that's the other issue high on my suspect list. The sound doesn't seem to come from one wheel or the other though. It is louder inside than outside and seems to be "sort of" on the driver's side....where the diff is located. I can't spin either front wheel when I jack up the vehicle because of the AWD. I can't feel any play in the wheel though....maybe the bearing is just not bad enough to make it "sloppy" though.
I'll grab some ATF tomorrow and top it up. Mind you, I guess if the gears in it are damaged it may not stop my whining.
Let you know what happens.
Last edited by canadaler; May 12, 2005 at 07:48 PM.
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Front end whine
I bet your problem is wheel bearings. I've had to replace mine (twice on one side) and the sound you're describing sounds familiar. I, too, thought differential and had the oil changed. No help.
Replacing the bearings is not a big job but the bearings cost about $110.00 per side here. That's the painful part.
Good luck
Rod
Replacing the bearings is not a big job but the bearings cost about $110.00 per side here. That's the painful part.
Good luck
Rod
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From: earth
CANADALER,
According to the Chilton, I think it calls SAE 80W-90 Hypoid gear for the front drive axle. You have to use a suction pump to get the old oil out if you are not going to take the cover off. But it's a real PIA job because there is NO room to work.
I am second to Cannon45.
On my 94' with 157k miles, I got the same noise, I changed the Rear, Front with new Hypoid gear and the transfer case with new ATF, but the noise still there. I plan to do it this summer.
HIH,
Fordboy49
According to the Chilton, I think it calls SAE 80W-90 Hypoid gear for the front drive axle. You have to use a suction pump to get the old oil out if you are not going to take the cover off. But it's a real PIA job because there is NO room to work.
I am second to Cannon45.
On my 94' with 157k miles, I got the same noise, I changed the Rear, Front with new Hypoid gear and the transfer case with new ATF, but the noise still there. I plan to do it this summer.
HIH,
Fordboy49
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by Fordboy49
CANADALER,
According to the Chilton, I think it calls SAE 80W-90 Hypoid gear for the front drive axle. You have to use a suction pump to get the old oil out if you are not going to take the cover off. But it's a real PIA job because there is NO room to work.
I am second to Cannon45.
On my 94' with 157k miles, I got the same noise, I changed the Rear, Front with new Hypoid gear and the transfer case with new ATF, but the noise still there. I plan to do it this summer.
HIH,
Fordboy49
According to the Chilton, I think it calls SAE 80W-90 Hypoid gear for the front drive axle. You have to use a suction pump to get the old oil out if you are not going to take the cover off. But it's a real PIA job because there is NO room to work.
I am second to Cannon45.
On my 94' with 157k miles, I got the same noise, I changed the Rear, Front with new Hypoid gear and the transfer case with new ATF, but the noise still there. I plan to do it this summer.
HIH,
Fordboy49
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From: earth
I hope it won't hurt may front axle. I changed it with Aimsoil gear oil! I already have over 10k miles on it. I haven't noticed any strange thing yet.
Copper, should I drain it and replace with ATF?
TIA,
Fordguy49
Copper, should I drain it and replace with ATF?
TIA,
Fordguy49
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From: Southern California
To be honest with you, Fordguy49, I have no idea why the front differential should be any different from the rear differential. I have disassembled both and they look awfully similar to me. A while ago, Torsen Rick even raised the possibility that the Mercon requirement for the front diff might be a misprint. I would say, if it's working fine, leave it alone. About the only thing it could hurt are the seals and those are easily replaceable.
I only said what I said in case you are in the process of draining and refilling. But if you are already done, there is no compelling reason, IMHO, to drain and fill it again.
Best Regards
I only said what I said in case you are in the process of draining and refilling. But if you are already done, there is no compelling reason, IMHO, to drain and fill it again.
Best Regards
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Well, looks like it may be the drivers side front wheel bearing(s).
I topped off the oil in the front differential (Ford ATF) and it only took about half a liter. Didn't make any change at all to the noise I am getting.
Have a buddy with an F150 who came for a ride in it, he thought it sounds like bearings as well. You can feel a slight vibration through the floor which seems to come with the noise.
The Chilton manual....pretty crappy I think...is only for 2WD models. I'll put a new post up here looking for some help in changing the front wheel bearings...which I have not done on an AWD before.
I topped off the oil in the front differential (Ford ATF) and it only took about half a liter. Didn't make any change at all to the noise I am getting.
Have a buddy with an F150 who came for a ride in it, he thought it sounds like bearings as well. You can feel a slight vibration through the floor which seems to come with the noise.
The Chilton manual....pretty crappy I think...is only for 2WD models. I'll put a new post up here looking for some help in changing the front wheel bearings...which I have not done on an AWD before.
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From: Southern California
Check the half-shaft CV joint. That might be the source of vibrations. Bearings would make noise, but I don't think you'll get vibrations from them, if they are only beginning to fail.
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I'm still not convinced that the front axle should use Mercon. There's a set of hypoid ring and pinion gears in there, right? Hypoid gears usually need hypoid gear oil, not ATF... Hypoid gear oils have high-pressure additives that keep the oil from breaking down in the sliding gear tooth mesh that occurs as a result of the offset center centerlines that these gears have. Our Torsen Type-1 differentials have a similar type of sliding mesh, and I've seen what happens when the wrong oil is used... Maybe the transfer case doesn't send enough torque to the front axle for it be a problem, but it would still make me nervous unless someone can actually justify the use of Mercon (other then because the manual said so).
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Originally Posted by copper_90680
Check the half-shaft CV joint. That might be the source of vibrations. Bearings would make noise, but I don't think you'll get vibrations from them, if they are only beginning to fail.
I also think they're past the "beginning to fail" stage, the noise and "grinding" are getting progressively worse. Gotta do something soon.
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by canadaler
Perhaps a better word to describe what I feel through the floor would be a "grinding" sensation rather than "vibration." (Although it is a vibration non the less.)
I also think they're past the "beginning to fail" stage, the noise and "grinding" are getting progressively worse. Gotta do something soon.
I also think they're past the "beginning to fail" stage, the noise and "grinding" are getting progressively worse. Gotta do something soon.
Anyway, for the AWD, I think the hub and bearing assembly must be changed as one unit, and it's about $100 per side aftermarket. On the other hand, I have read on this forum a while back about someone changing only the bearing in the assembly. I can't seem to find that thread, however. As for instructions, if you would e-mail me first, I can scan something from my manual and send it to you. Otherwise, I can't attach anything to the message the way this forum is structured.
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[QUOTE=copper_90680]On the other hand, I have read on this forum a while back about someone changing only the bearing in the assembly. I can't seem to find that thread, /QUOTE]
I recall seeing the same thread but the author was challenged as to whether it was the standard 2WD vs 4WD being reported on. There was no response to the challenge and it was likely the replacement was for the 2WD version. To my knowledge, the 4WD bearing hubs are not rebuildable.
I recall seeing the same thread but the author was challenged as to whether it was the standard 2WD vs 4WD being reported on. There was no response to the challenge and it was likely the replacement was for the 2WD version. To my knowledge, the 4WD bearing hubs are not rebuildable.
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From: earth
Canadaler,
If it's that bad, why don't you jack the front up and grip the tire and shake it to see if it 's firm?
Fordparts.com quote me around $250/ea plus handling & shipping.
Just curious,
Fordguy49
If it's that bad, why don't you jack the front up and grip the tire and shake it to see if it 's firm?
Fordparts.com quote me around $250/ea plus handling & shipping.
Just curious,
Fordguy49