Well said frty7ford. My mom still threatens me sometimes with a spanking even though I'm 18. It's not so much the pain of it, but mere humiliation. She's already told me she would do it if she had to, but I haven't gotten spanked in a long time. I correct my attitutude myself, before it needs to be adjusted by a belt (sad part is, she would use my belt). But I do remember that when she had to spank me, she would always tell me she was doing this for the better of me, it was never to relieve herself of needing to be physical. My dad beat me when I lived with him, I know the difference of a spanking and a beating. When he made me bleed and have bruises (I hardly ever bruise) where you could read what his belt buckle said.. that's is too much.

Now on the 2x6.. that is too much, and has anybody ever tried to hold onto a 2x6 even to throw? Especially one say, 2 feet long. It would be way too heavy and your hand wouldn't grip it. I think this is media exageration here, but none the less.. that's going too far.

 

Next time you see an adult do something you don't like, go up to them, manhandle the person to get their pants off, bend them over your knee and give them a spanking; be sure to pick someone of miniscule stature so you can lay a licken on the person without much of a fight. See what happens. Why does the spanking stop when the kids get old/smart/big enough to start thinking for themselves and have the ability to fight back. Spanking is a misuse of power and definitely not fair to beat on someone just because you are bigger than them.

I watched my cousins get beat with a 18" chunk of conveyor belt many, many times; to this day I have no respect for my aunt and uncle and it makes me cringe when they are all lovey dovey around family; so two faced and yet they are staunch Jehovas Witnesses. If these laws had been around back them I would have ratted them out.

 

the problem is , spank your kids go to jail and now if your minor gets into trouble you as the parent are responsiable and they will throw you in jail there isnt a child out there that at one time or another hasnt needed a spanking {not beating} nothing makes me angrier than to go out for dinner with my family and i cant even enjoy my meal because someone that dont believe in spankings brats are running around screaming the same when im in a store and the lady in the checkout in front of me has a brat throwing a fit and she looks at me and says kids will be kids spank that kids *** right there i would never have behaved that way as a kid thats the problem with kids these days and THE PARENTS ARE TO BLAME dont correct your kid and dont be surprised when your kid is the one with the gun at school

 

Country is coming to an end..

 

My general observation of the evolution of spanking here in the U.S.:

My generation (I’m 43):
We were spanked (typically with a belt or kitchen utensil) and not to sound cliché, but probably deserved every single one. This discipline however, was rarely ever followed up by an explanation of my bad behavior (as I did with my kids).

My fathers generation:
They were spanked and sometimes beaten, even up until their early teens. Many times the extenuating circumstances were either unknown or ignored by the parents. You were to be seen and not heard.

My grandfathers generation (the greatest generation):
They were beaten. Many times wrongly. There was no explanation, no extenuating circumstances. They were forced to go out and cut their own switch. You were NOT to be seen, OR heard. Many times the social relationship between child and parent was NIL.

Somehow, some way, these generations managed to grow-up to become some of the most hard working and outstanding citizens this country may ever see. Some have endured two World Wars, and a Great Depression that brought this country to its knees….amazing.

I am not advocating physical discipline here, as polarbear said earlier, you do what works. I am only concerned for the future, as I see bad examples all around me……

 

I want to say first that I'm not some new age hippy. I was spanked with a belt as a kid and I think I turned out okay. However, I don't like to spank my kids. I spanked my oldest some and I occassionally spank my youngest (never with anything other than my hand) and I just think there are better ways of disciplining your kids. I think spanking means that you have lost control of the situation. Instead, we use things like the naughty spot and taking away priveledges. My kids are generally well behaved so I think it is working. One thing I do with my kids that wasn't done to me and I don't see a lot of in other parents is treating my kids with respect. I really feel you get what you give. We aren't equals and we are not friends but I let them see how much I love them and I treat them like human beings and set an example. I think this is way more effective than escalating the situation through violence.

 

One thing I do with my kids that wasn't done to me and I don't see a lot of in other parents is treating my kids with respect. I really feel you get what you give. We aren't equals and we are not friends but I let them see how much I love them and I treat them like human beings and set an example. I think this is way more effective than escalating the situation through violence.

Very, very nice post. I honestly think they learn more from example than anything else.

RocketScience- I am so darned bullish on the next generation it's not even funny. Comes from my thoughts on the "8th and final Eagle" thread. There are plenty of good kids out there- they just don't make the TV or the papers.

But they're out there. I know some of them. They drive pickups, say "sir" and "maam," do stupid stuff sometimes because that's what kids do. A lot of them post right here. For those that think the whole generation's gone to pot, they need to revisit the videos of our guys in Iraq, in the intitial days of the war. Whatever you may think of the war itself, those young men and women that were taped, live, in action, had to make a lot of us realize that there's a lot more to the next generation than meets the newspaper.

 

Kids have a lot of priveledges these days; a lot can be accomplished by taking priveledges away.

When the TV, phone, PS2 get taken away and are grounded for a week they will soon realize that their actions have consequences.

 

my children say please, thankyou, yes sir yes mam, they respect elders, and we DO talk things over i respect my children and they respect me my oldest is 20 my second is 17 and my youngest is 11 they all are on the honor roll at school they all donate time to help others and not once have they got in trouble with the law my point is they were raised right and yes they received spankings not beatings. i am from a small town i see kids around the town kids away from their parents they cuss smoke have no respect for themselves or others im not saying that there arent any good kids out there, just saying that there are very few. how many of you have or know kids that are pregnant, on drugs , in trouble with the law , etc. etc. llike the commercial goes PARENTS DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR KIDS ARE? we need to talk to our kids ,listen to our kids,and yes spank our kids when needed. THANKS for letting me ramble but this is something that gets me because i beleive that our children are on a down hill slide and parents are to blame

 

If you would have had me as a kid, you wouldn't have known what to do then. A little swat on my rear, and I would have laughed at you for wasting my time...but then again I was a bad kid!

Every child is different and some need spankings where some don't. I got so many spankings, it was ridiculous. I never really learned from them, but if you took my stuff away from me (or took my fun away), then I would shut up real fast.

Some kids need groundings, and some kids just need a few licks with a belt...and then some kids need Juvenile Detention! I miss the 'ol JV Center! j/j

 

Just had to comment on this one. Coming from a one parent household does NOT make a "troubled" kid.

My mom raised us three older kids (she remarried during my teens and she and SD had my little sis together when I was 16) by herself. She worked several jobs to keep a roof over our heads, food in our bellies, and clothes on our backs. She was also going to college at the same time. Somehow she STILL made time to help us kids with homework and teach us right and wrong. My bio-father (they divorced when I was 5, but he wasn't any help before that point anyway) was physically/verbally/emotionally abusive and mom had a boyfriend for awhile that was a terribly mean drunk.

My DH, on the other hand, comes from a two parent household. He's got far more emotional issues than I ever have...even considering the abuse I grew up around. His parents are both educated people and had NO time for their kids as they were both too busy leading their lives. My DH and his sister BOTH dropped out of HS (DH is just finally working toward his GED) before 10th grade, and he claims his parents said nothing about it. They were never encouraged to do well in school and noone EVER had any expectations of them.

My IL's really are nice, generous, caring people but in my opinion they SUCKED as parents. Somehow my DH did managed to learn some excellent work ethic (luckily, he was taken under someone's wing as a high school drop out and was taught the in's-and-out's of the lumber and trucking industry.

I just find it interesting that everyone assumes growing up in a one parent household is traumatic or something. Sure, I had issues of feeling abandoned and such, but in my mid teens I came to realize that I was better off without the alcoholic, drug abusing, abusive person that is technically my father.

Also, I agree that a 2x anything is too much for a spanking. But I have no problem with spankings. I got my fair share of them growing up, and while I hated every single one, I respect my mom for caring about me enough to do what it took to make me a decent person. As a small child, I was actually scared of the spankings but at some point that fear turned to respect for my mother. Instead of being afraid of the spanking, I feared dissapointing my mom.

I say do whatever is necessary to teach your kids to be adults (obviously not beating them), but most important is consistency.

My SIL has two young boys that she is raising with the help of her parents. All three of them threaten the boys when they mis-behave but never follow through. There was one day the oldest nephew (was 3 or 4) was being a monster and I asked him to behave, when he didn't I promised him he'd be standing in the corner. When he laughed at me and continued to mis-behave, I picked him up and took him to the corner. When he refused to stand up in the corner, I picked him up, stood him there and swatted him on the butt.

I could have easily given up at any point during this, but after picking him back up and swatting him a few times he got the point and stood in the corner, bawling his eyes out. Never ONCE since then have we had to repeat that. He has challenged my authority a time or two but all I have to do is say "Do you want a spanking?" And he gets right to doing what he's supposed to do.

The two of us have a great relationship. He's about 5 1/2 now and I can see the respect in his eyes. I make sure to let him know when I think he's done a good job at something (just this last weekend he wanted to go to church with DH and I, and he amazed me by being the perfect angel...not a peep out of him for the whole hour and 20 minutes (our priest tends to get sidetracked and his homilies get a little long!heheh)

Kids NEED to know you have expectations of them though. My DH STILL thinks his parents must have thought he was just too stupid to make it through school and thats why they never helped him out or encouraged him.

Okay, end my rant.

 

Polarbear your last post was really good. I admit I had to step back and think about that after reading it. I agree that taking a way priveldges is a good punishment. I was thinking about this and prior to the 1900s there wasn't much to take away from your kids as punishment. A lot of them even worked. So with nothing to take away, yes a spanking (or unfortunate beating) was the parent's recourse. Now, the problem that I see with a good %age of parents today is that those who don't spank usually take away a priveledge, TV, playstation, phone, etc. Fine, great - this was the most effective punishment for me as a kid. However, I see some of those parents not following through. They take TV from the kid as a punishment and 2 hours later cave at the kids whining about it, so they cave just to shut junior up. All it takes is to do this once, and that kid has got it figured out.

 

Good point, and I hope I didn't mean to imply that it isn't possible to raise a child successfully as a single parent. My hat's off to the single parents because, as you well know, it's a lot tougher, and many aren't up to the task.

I am struck by a common thread with the kids my wife teaches- most of them have had adults in their life that failed them miserably...or worse. Much worse- I get angry whenever I even think about it.

re: Your story with your nephew- I believe that the reason we've rarely taken a hand to our kids is because they knew when Mrs. Bear or I say "stop that or I'll spank!" we meant it. And an hour "time out" means exactly that- it's not negotiable. And a tantrum in the store when they were small guaranteed they wouldn't get whatever it was they wanted.

MRKnight- you're spot on. Consistency is more important than the actual punishment doled out. Kids love rules- if they understand the rules are written in stone, they're easy to follow. Kids are also extremely perceptive- once they know the rules are negotiable, they can get control of a situation pretty easily.

Which circles us around to the original article in this thread- a swat on the butt of a 3 or 4 yr old is establishing the rules. Paddling an 11 yr old with what sounds like a 2X6 is, in my own opinion, is a situation that's spun out of control.

 

Polarbear,
You're exactly right that these kids have been failed by one adult or another. Its incredibly sad and I commend your wife for being a constant in their life, teaching them a better way of life. I'm willing to bet, even though she probably won't get through to all of them, that most of them will only wish they could thank her in a few years.

I definetely agree that a spanking for a 3-4 year old is teaching them something, but for an 11 y.o. its beyond that. Not to say that spanking an 11 y.o. won't teach them something, but I'm thinking at that age...it probably isn't the most effective way to discipline.

I noticed with my IL's and nephews though.....My MIL once was telling me that the oldest nephew wasn't "old enough" to understand any of it and thats why they didn't do anything with him. Hmmm, i kept wanting to ask "Sooo, when do you think he'll be beamed some manners?"

I'm very thankful that the oldest nephew is now in preschool. Its done WONDERS for him. I think having a teacher that EXPECTS him to behave, focus, do his work combined with seeing how other kids act and interact has really helped him.

Still, he's only to the place my little sis was at age 2. Its kind of comical playing a board game with my darling sis.....if she bumps your playing piece she immediately apologizes. Shoot, a simple apology is something I"m still trying to teach my DH, something his parents failed to do.

This is a great discussion! Hopefully there will be people re-evaluating their parenting after reading this stuff.

Someone mentioned earlier about not going out for dinner even because of everyone's little brats running around. DH and I went out one night at a fancier burger joint (like a$10/burger..insane, I know) and this boy, was probably about 8-9 stood over my husbands shoulder munching on his burger. He was so close that had ketchup dripped off his messy little face it would have landed right on Dh's sleeve. I made some comments, outloud, about children running around unattended, but I SHOULD have gotten up, and taken the kid back to his parents and told them to keep track of him.

I've also sworn NEVER to go out to dinner with my nephews in tow. The last time we went out was at Red Lobster and I know when we go out for dinner its usually a special occasion, you pay loads of money for a meal and it ought to be special....I don't want to pay that much for a plate so I can listen to other people's kids act like brats.

the boys were terrible and my FIL kept threatning to take them to sit in the car if they didn't calm down. Did he ever actually do it? NO. If I had been as confident then as I am now, I would have taken them myself. But listening to FIL yell at the kids just made our table seem more obnoxious. Ugh.

 

FWIW, we took our kids everywhere from Day 1. Restaurants, road trips, airplanes...even Hawaii and Europe. And there were very few stories to tell about how they embarassed us in public- except for our middle child, whose autism created some...interesting...situations. A good sense of humor will get you through a lot though. Faith, and an unshakeable belief in yourself and your kids will get you through the rest.