MY truck is a bitch to start when it's hot. When cold it starts almost before I turn the key( well, maybe not ), but when its warmed up it will just turn over and over and not fire. She runs fine when running just wont start. Anyone got any ideas? 1965 f 350 240 I6 bone stock

 

Hey Gordo HiYa & G'Day. . . . Been a long time since we heard from ya!

Could be Carburetor hot soak where float bowl boiled away fuel after shut down.

Could be weak starter field coils or short (as in worn down) starter brushes.

Could be starter hot soak condition if exhaust pipe's too close to starter housing.

Could need a tune up as cap, wires, plugs, rotor, capacitor, points & coil wear out.

Could be low engine compression.

Do you know what your cranking speed is? At what RPM it's cranking over?
Do you know what amperage your starter draws when hot, compared to when cold?

Do you know if there's fuel in carb float bowl after hot shutdown, use your accelerator pump in carb to check for adequate fuel before re-starting hot some time. Also be sure you hav a good clean fuel filter and no fuel line leakage where it could suck air.

If your starter draws more than 180-200 amps cold or 200-220 amps when hot it may need a freshening up, or brushes & cleaning out. Check field coil continuity too.

If starter housing is too close to exhaust down pipe, like 1.5 inches or less try some kind of a heat shield, like an old aluminum pie tin and wire it up to starter motor as a test -trial set up.

Tune up goes without saying, but when ya tune her up, do a complete tune up every
third time at least. . . .

As for compression take a compression tests hot & cold. Make sure all cyls are within a max 10lbs of each other.

FBp

 

I had a similar problem with my old 69 Cougar. Had a 351 not a six, but your trouble sounds like what I had. Turned out to be the coil. I swapped coils with an axtra I had and it solved my hot start trouble. Might have had other factors at play, but it worked so I didnt argue LOL>

Ron

 

Thanx guys, I'll try the coil with one I've got in the shed first. The starter has been replaced just 3 months ago so that "should " be allright. I did notice that she started easily when I roll started it so that points to an electrical loss somewhere I would think. Should have known it would be an easy fix but I've been busy tryin to keep my later model chevy on the road, which takes up most of my time and money these days.

 

This statement tells me that its NOT the coil. If that were the case it would get hot and quit. He also mentioned that the engine turns "over and over." That tells me that the starter is not the problem.

If the truck is like nearly every other in that time frame it has an Autolite 1100 carburetor. Everybody but Pony Carbs says these carbs were trouble frome the get go. I have read that Ford dealers would not attempt repair when the many Warranty jobs came in. They simply replaced them with Holley units. By '67 they had sense enough to go to the Carter YF for the most part. This is now a popular upgrade.

I am with you. I have the same setup and the same problems. My carb is an easy start in the coldest weather but I go to a store for 15 minutes and come out she acts flooded. I actually have had a Carter for months now but I have never installed it. Mainly because you have to find a later model air filter and you have to rig the choke cable. No big deal except I don't want a stupid looking chrome filter with a more stupid leaky, plastic adapter to make it fit.

Anyhow I would bet money that the carb is the problem. I will feel stupid if it has some other carb but you said it was "bone stock" so it should have the Autolite. Other carbs could and do cause the same condition but The Autolite 1100 was notorious for poor efficiency and hard hot starts.

 

You are correct in thinking it has the autolite 1100 carb,still has the oil bath air cleaner too. Was going to change to the carter yf a while back but they were never brought down here on any of the trucks that ford imported so I guess I'll have to look for a holley of some description. I'm not too fussed as to what it looks like as I use the old girl as a farm truck carting hay and timber and also dragging my tractor around when I do fence contracting,( pulls it real easy considering that the trailer with the tractor on it weighs in at around 8500 lbs).

 

Gordo,
In my prioritized list, I began with the carb, and I will tell you a cure if you want.

Machine a couple of spacer blocks out of phenolic material 3/8 or 1/2 inch thick the same as a carb gasket. then fabricate a shield plate out of durable aluminum to fit between the phenolic blocks, and extend out as far as you can, up to several inches from the carburetor itself, bent it up to shield from valve cover too.

Next get some grade 8 or stainless carb studs to accomodate the added blocking & shield hieght. When putting it back together use stainless or brass nuts. It insulates carb base from that huge cast mass where 2 manifolds bolt together. It absorbs heat while running then radiates it when it's shut down hot and the air flow quits, which is why it boils the carb "down" after hot shutdowns.

Or get another carb as mentioned above.
FBp

 

Will always take advise from you Pete. You dont get that long in the tooth without picking up a few good ideas !!!! As to the carb ,I've found a wrecker that has a 300 ci motor from a ( he thinks) 75 f100, would that fit my 240? And if so , does that have the same problems as the 1100. Sorry I dont know what the carb is But I'm taking a huge assumption that it a stock one on a 75 mdl. Maybe I could get a carb from ths USA as my wife and I are planning a big trip this September to Kentucky, Virginia (horse related states) and then to a place called Carlisle for me. Apparently there's a small gathering of car dudes there in the fall!

 

That carb on the wrecker should be a Carter YF. At some point the Yfs started having a larger base. I have heard you can wollow out the bolt holes and it will fit on the older manifold flange. If you come to the states you can pick one up that will bolt directly to your intake with no modification. Go to a parts store and ask for a stock Carter carb for a 1968 300. I have one sitting on my shelf here in Virginia. If I dont get off my butt and change it by September come on by. I'll let you have it cheap. Fresh, rebuilt, in the box. Untried is the bad part. In the era of outsorceing of American jobs sometimes you have to try a couple of rebuilt parts before you get the one you want. Not a great lot but I see it more now than ever. I guess in labor you get what you pay for.

Low pay= high margin of error

 

G'Day Gordo. . . . .
I can't find my Vol 1 OEM S&R Manual for 75's. I'm not sure carbs still have same base bolt spread. . . . My hunch tells me it changed after 72, but I might be wrong.

I think Greg, above is right on both counts. 67 to 72 is probably a direct bolt up, and there is a good probablilty bolt holes can be enlarged/slotted enough to get carb to bolt down right & work well, in the event the hole spread is not the same. I'm not certain about linkage but it's no "job stopper".

As long as carb is fully opened at WOT & fully closed, or resting on idle stops when your foot's off the "loud" pedal, it ought to work fine with manual shift gears. By the way WOT= Wide Open Throttle.

The short answer about having the same problem is; No it shouldn't have the same problem if all other considerations are fairly equal. Extremes could affect that, such as radical ambient temperatures, or very low Octane Ratings and so on. BUt in the realm of Average/ normal the carb off a 4.9L (300 cid) is a much better carb IMHO.

There's 2 concerns with later carter carbs. 1st is throttle plate shaft fit in the iron base. Make sure shaft fits fairly well without play or slop to create air leaks around itself. A lot of mileage & wear causes this air bleed thing. It is repairable by replacing the base & shaft, or by boring & bushing the base down then installing a new, good or better shaft in it.

The 2nd one is not very common but every once in a great while carter let some porous castings get through "Q-C" Inspection. Chances are 99.9999% carb you're looking at is fine because by now someone would have swapped it out. BUT if you install it and it does really wierd things even tho' all appears to be fine, it could be that porosity thing acain. AFB 4Vs & some of Carters Thermo Quads had this problem too. . . . I doubt you'll find it but if youdo it won't be a mystery to ya.

Surely you jest Gordo? Carlisle is not a Small Gathering, even in a kidding manner.
If you want to actually take it all in give yourself the full 3 days, or even get there on "set up day" to get a jump on it. Also wear good walkers because it's miles of aisles of Vendors there. . . . We/ve been a vendor there many times before Y2K, I sort of lightened up after that. ALso if it rains, be prepared, it really gets dank & wet. . . .

CIAO
FBp

 

Howdy All

I have exact same problem with stock 351C. When cold starts after one swing but I can drive down to the shop and get back and the sucker just wont start. Just swings and swings..

I did rebuild the starter motor so I doubt that is where the problem is. And I have also tried pouring some petrol down into the carb but still same.

What I have not tried is another coil yet, but the engine still runs fine when hot.

PLEASE HELP!!

 

I bet you have an Autolite carb as well as the rest of us. Only you have a 2bbl or 4bbl I imagine. I believe all versions of Autolite/Motorcraft carbs have the same problem. They leak fuel after warmup and the engine is shut down.

Now a little automechanics theory. If your engine wont start but your poor starter still allows it to "swing and swing" dont waste your time and $$ rebuilding a good starter. Its doing its job. If your engine can't catch on within a good 5 second crank give it a rest. I have seen people crank an engine until the battery cables are smoking. Real good for a starter.

If your problem is like the rest I have seen and my current one you need to hold the gas pedal wide open. DO NOT PUMP!! It is already flooded. That is why when you poured gas down it nothing happened. I was already flooded. If a person can get used to this condition he can go on for a long time because the carb will otherwise perform fine. I let a leaky 4bbl go for a long time on my 390 Galaxie when gas was $.75 a gallon back in the eightees. I just learned how to crank a flooded engine. Seems like it was worse in the Summer. The gas ***** have our backs to the wall now. Can't afford to waste fuel. Especially while sitting still. Really can't afford to go for a Sunday drive. It costs $10 to get enough gas to keep my lawnmower going for a few weeks!

 

I have a 1986 F250HD all stock with 351. I have the same problem. Truck starts fine when it is cold. If I run it for even 10 minutes it acts as if it's flooded. I can start it by depressing the accelerator to the floor but then I have a strong gas smell. Before I had the carb re-built I did not have this problem. It started fine both hot and cold but I had low power and the engine ran rough. Now the engine runs great, smooth with lots of power but with a hard hot start. Someone told me to change the spacer between the carb and the manifold which I have not done yet. Any other ideas or help is appreciated.

Thanks

 

I would like an answer as well to why various Ford carburetors lean toward this hot starting condition. Like I said I have had this trouble with all types of stock Ford/Autolite/Motorcraft carbs. Other than that they run great for the most part. The 4bbl job never seemed to open the secondairies. At least you couldnt feel it come in. Other than that no problems.

Anybody who knows anything about carburetors will think this is strange. One night back when I was fighting my Autolite 1100 I sat up on the engine after a good warmup with a drop light and watched for several minutes to try and determine if the carb was percolating or whatever else may be going on. What I saw astonished me. I saw a shot of gas come from the pump discharge nozzle. I was not working the throttle or touching the carb in any way. There was also nothing pushing the accelerator cable. Basically I'm saying nothing at all was moving the throttle lever or pump rod at all. It discharges on its own. It only did it twice that night and just that should not be enough to cause the fairly well flooded condition we are discussing.

Hopefully soon I will have the Carter YF mounted. I hear they make a fairly big difference in economy and driveability. Hope so!!

 

finally found a a carb that I could fit on to the old girl , a Stromberg by Bendix, Very common down here on GM cars from 51 to 78. Ovaled out the base holes a little and bent the throttle linkage to fit and it looks like a factory install. Now she fires right up any weather, hot or cold, rain or shine ( did someone say RAIN We havn't had a drop in 12 weeks and this is our winter!!). Also seems to pull alot harder in the mid-range but that might be just me dreaming again