the svt gt500 needs irs seriously i read alot of places on the web wee it says its not going to come with it wtf if thats true ford could be shooting there self in the foot

i bleed blue to by the way

 

Nothing wrong with going with a solid rear axle in the GT500. A lot of people who bought 03/04 Cobras swapped out the IRS in favor of a SRA setup. The Cobras see more 1/4 mile track time and the SRA favors that type of racing and can be tuned for road course work with very good results..ie the 05 Mustang GT's...


Anyway, SVT is planning on having 5 vehicles, the Cobra, the Adrenaline, and 3 others...all in very short order. The SVT group is doing the right thing by taking it's time to properly engineer their niche vehicles and I'm not going to fault them if they take a hiatus from the Cobra and Lightning to do it. Since most of the SVT's manpower and buget went to the GT it didn't leave much room for other vehicles. Now Ford has doubled SVT to nearly 200 people...going to see a major comeback in the next year or so. Also that "just slap a supercharger on it to make cheap power" diatribe is one of the most worthless arguements in this thread...

"In other words, a cheap alternative to a company that cannot afford to build a good performance engine."

Apparently someone hasn't kept pace with the automotive aftermarket for the last several years. It favors vehicles with factory forced induction and Ford knows this. Honestly think the 4.6 or 5.4 can't make power without a blower? If Ford wanted to cut costs it would put the 5.0 Cammer motor in the Cobra and call it a day...400 - 500 hp naturally aspirated depending on how it's tuned instead of building another engine. It would cost them almost nothing in terms of R&D since the engine exists and is already in production. They could also redo the 5.4 DOHC from the 2000 Cobra R which made 385hp n/a and could do much more with the revised DOHC heads and intake now available. You think production supercharged or turbocharged engines are the cheaper route? I don't think the C38 forged cranks, forged 4340 Manley H-beam rods, and forged Mahl pistons that went into the 03/04 Cobras are cheap by any measure...certainly a helluva lot more expensive way to go but that's what happens when things are done right. So Ford can do it either way, blown or naturally aspirated, but it likes to give it's customers and the aftermarket room to play.



Oh..and if you are gonna say "Well see what happens if I put a supercharger on a 6.1..." Go ahead....who's gonna tune it?

I'm going to go ahead and appologize for this post. Yes it's rather mean and biting and it doesn't do the best job of representing Ford-Trucks as a whole in terms of civil discussion material. My bad.

 

Pretty darn accurate.
I have got one of their supercharger kits on my car (an FPV actually), and it came with in 10RWhp of their quoted figure...

Thats in Australian dollars remember...
The Monaro (the Pontiac GTO) sells for around Au$60000 here (about US$46000).
How GM can ship a car half way around the world, pay import duties and still sell it CHEAPER to you guys I will never know.

But if GM can do it, so can Ford. Its just that they can't make them in LHD thats all (well not yet anyway).

BTW. Check my gallery if you want. I have 2 FPV products...

 

Well from my experience driving the car I would have to say that the SRA is the Mustangs biggest downfall.
The handling when you hit mid corner bumps is atrocious, axle tramp and skittish rear end behaviour galore.
Don't get me wrong, I love the car, but it is its biggest downfall.
What I would like to see is on the GT (and all future HiPo Mustangs) is a factory option of an IRS.
I don't mind paying a bit for it, but I WANT IRS.
I am well aware it is designed for those that drag race, and for cheapness...
How about an option for those of us that go around corners?

Remember the Mustangs heritage lies far more in track racing than in drag racing (the Shelby stang's terrorised tracks, not strips)
Well, having researched this quite extensively before I bolted a supercharger on my DOHC 5.4, there isn't a lot more to be gained out of the 5.4l.
The limit is about 430hp, much over that it gets REALLY REALLY expensive.
The stroke of the engine is far too large, and the piston speeds it reaches are tremendous, hence the moment of Inertia is massive, not to mention the friction.

 

Ben, how in the world can you compare the GT to every SRT and make any type of argument that will hold water. The price argument is over abused and should not even be used as price is relative to what the manufactor can get for it not what it is worth. BTW, there is a good chance the Charger SRT will break into the 12's factory stock since the 300C ran a 13.2 and the Charger should a little lighter.

No arguments for Ford or GM reflects the fact that SRT is whipping tail right now with 8 new vehicals, 7 of which are in the 13's stock, (I left the Magnum SRT out, just over looked it).

Everyone better hope Ford is in a transition and not a new direction. It will be a long one transition if sales don't start going up.

 

Okay you guys keeps talking SRT this SS that, but you guys are totally forgeting the differences in the company's. Ford north america isnt just ford if you all can remember. Ford has high performace machince out the ying yang! I dont mean to boast but you have the jaguar r types, you have the Aston Martins, you have the new Range Rover Sport. Sure they are all not blue ovals, but Im sure there is a little bit of ford in all those products, not to mention all the Amg in Srt. Im just sure Srt got those nice 5 speed autos from the tooth fairy. Now Im not blasting SRT, I personally think that they are doing an awsome job. But you keep talking about ford having no performance cars, when it has many. Just because they are all part of fords other brands doesnt rule them out. Ford invest money in every company it has, and to tell the truth now that SVT is on its feet again its only trouble for srt. I have never seen any SRT product rated as high as an SVT model. Motor trend and all major car magazines loved everything svt put out, because of the balance and power created by the people at SVT. Im Just glad to see American Car have the heat back.

 

I have to say that I agree on the supercharger being the cheap way out. They don't have to retool, and they can go pick out an aftermarket company and say we need X many of these by such and such date with a ford logo on them. It is the extremely cheap way out. Dodge doen't have much to brag about, it is just more along the line that Ford has very little to brag about. IMHO

 

And GM has nothing to brag about as well. Ive seen nothing that turns me on over there either.

 

Thats well put. Its not Dodge thats a mile ahead. Its a combonation of Dodge being a head a little, and Ford being behind a little.

Canadianice.

We can bring the other brands into the equation if you like. If we bring in Jags, and Austin Martins, we must bring in Mercedes AMG products aswell.

The Mustang may be able to run with some of the SRTs in the 1/4 mile. But on the sales side of things it can't compare. You can't throw the Mustang up against every competitior out there. Thats why Ford needs some action out of SVT, and soon.


Best as always.

 

We can bring the other brands into the equation if you like. If we bring in Jags, and Austin Martins, we must bring in Mercedes AMG products aswell.
Well yes and no.
Ford has refinanced and revitalised Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin.
Ford purchased these companies and has done all of the hard work to get them back on track, brining out some impressive products in the process.

Chrysler merely merged with Benz, and subsequently they (Chrysler) have done nothing for the (admittedly darn good) AMG products.
In fact (and I don't want to be rude here) they have merely leeched off Mercedes existing platforms.

Crossfire - old Mercedes SLK chassis
300C - old Mercedes E-Class

The SRT-6 Crossfire is a heavier SLK32 with new clothing (and less interior room) - Chrysler hardly had to do much work their...
Apart from the 6.1l HEMI, Chrysler by itself has done very little.

They haven't created their own car, they have just got an old platform, and managed to make it worse (if you don't believe me, drive the previous shape E-Class and a 300C back to back).

Ford and SVT create their own vehicle from scratch, yes they may use things like off the shelf superchargers, but I think the result (a quick fun car) is far more important than the means in which it is achieved.

Yes, NA is preferable in terms of throttle response, but todays superchargers aren't far behind in that respect, and as a plus side you can use a smaller engine sitting over the front axle to achieve the same power, which improves turn in, weight diestribution, and moves the front moment of yaw closer to the centre of the car.
An example of this is the fact that a new Audi A4 1.8T is a better drive than the V8 powered S4. The weight over the front axle is far less.

Fitting of a supercharger standard also enables the user to cheaply up the power via changing pulley sizes.

 

Most Mustang purists will say the same about the IRS. I do agree Ford should make the IRS an option but it would be a very expensive option. Having owned 2 Mustangs with SRA I can say driving one with the stock suspension parts will give it a weak impression compared to driving an SVT Cobra with it's IRS setup. But then you are comparing vehicles built with much different goals. Most of the Mustangs in track duty such as in the American Iron series are SRA. I seem to remember a recent article where 05 GT's with SRA placed 1 and 2 (or 1, 2, & 3?) in an event and that was against equally modified BMW's. It's a well proven and cheaply modified setup that works well in either drag racing or track racing.

Might need to tell that to some of the guys swapping Navigator motors in their Mustangs and Crown Vics...several of them are making well north of 430hp at the wheels Heck one guy is running a DOHC 5.4 and making 500+ whp and it's not even fully tuned. Your are right about the cost to a point but even now it isn't too much of a difference between going n/a or blown with some of the latest aftermarket goodies.



Those who think the supercharger is the cheap way out might want to research the SAE article on the GT's motor and see what it takes to "slap on a supercharger" It's not extremely cheap...it's extremely reliable and proven. What? You think Mercedes choose to put a twinscrew on their SL55 AMG because they wanted to cut costs on a $100K+ car? I think Dodge and GM have a lot to learn from SVT.

 

yeah!!!!!!!

 

don't give me your EDITED BY ADMIN, because they are cheap performance if you ever looked at the price to bolt one up, ford can probably by them at cost or a little over, because of the volume. they are not extremely reliable, for if they were, you would see supercharged diesel rather than turbo diesels. the supercharger has a lot of performance advantages over a turbo because of it being driven from the motor, there is no lag etc. this is why they use the blower concept on dragsters. you really ought to think a little bit before you post.

look at the numbers SVT produces, there is no way they could retool for ever new performance they wanted to put out, if ford would tune the motors for power to begin with, bumping up the hp for a different model is a cake walk. chevy has motor that they can play with the tuning a lot. heck you can tune that 5.4 through the roof, my uncle races all kinds of small block chevies, and he is making 800 hp and that motor lasted for 4 years i think before it got weak and they decided to freshen it up. this was week in and week out racing in the summer.

 

This is bad, incorrect information. What is your definition of expensive. Doing any engine work to a modular is expensive, but a 430 horsepower 5.4L is going to be a relatively mild, streetable, inexpensive (for a modular) combo.

You take a 5.4L, give it 10.5:1 or higher compression, cleaned up Navi heads and a set of cams you are going to make in excess of 500 horsepower at the flywheel if the engine builder has a clue. It's been done many times.

The '00 R 5.4L was making about 420 flywheel horsepower as it was, it had 9.6:1 CR, heads that needed port work, and a MILD set of cams. This engine wasn't strung out at all, so how are you going to tell us it is hard to exceed 430 horsepower?

You need to talk Al Papitto, he has an n/a 5.4L making well over 500 rwhp. Now were talking about a 600 horsepower n/a 5.4L...

 

Because of a comment by MuscleCar Fan who claimed the Mustang GT isn't a "performance car" at all and is slower than every SRT except the Grand Cherokee. This is flat out WRONG and that is what I was addressing. I was not making an arguement that the Mustang GT is going to compete with every SRT model, if you had bothered to read the quote I posted from Muscle Car Fan you may have grasped the context of my post.....

I looked at every model on the SRT lineup and compared it to the Mustang GT. SRT doesn't have anything in the GTs price range that can beat it, and the cars than can beat it (barely) are considerably more expensive. Face it, unless SRT steps up ther game they are going to get reemed by SVT's new lineup.