Gas to diesel conversion
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: APPLE VALLEY
Originally Posted by racingstudebaker
Hmm.. I dunno if the diesel wiring being fully integrated is good or bad for me. I'm still wondering if the wiring for the '86 has the diesel wiring already included in it if it started life as a gasser. I gotta get a wiring diagrams manual for the '86 I guess. But no real problem, I'll just change what I have to change from the diesel van to the gasser, it's WELL worth it. 
The OTHER thing that happened to me is, after reading a LOT of the posts here, I'm gonna put my great running, Banks turbo'ed, '86 6.9 and C-6 with the Gear Vendors OD in the "new" truck, instead of the 7.3. From what I see, the hassle of control wiring for the 7.3 just isn't worth the effort. The 7.3 I have is an '89, and I can keep that in case I would ever need backup.
The OTHER thing that happened to me is, after reading a LOT of the posts here, I'm gonna put my great running, Banks turbo'ed, '86 6.9 and C-6 with the Gear Vendors OD in the "new" truck, instead of the 7.3. From what I see, the hassle of control wiring for the 7.3 just isn't worth the effort. The 7.3 I have is an '89, and I can keep that in case I would ever need backup.
I received an engine manual today. My fuel filter has a fuel line heater and sensors for plugged filter and water. If my manual is correct that makes it something called a U-Haul model. The crankcase depression regulator valve is mounted on the intake manifold, directly on the rear of the air intake, rather than remote. The valve cover decal says 185 HP @ 3300. The door tag says Sept 88.
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From: Buffoonalo, Yew Nork
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
Can I bring my snow plow up and visit? We did not get any snow to speak of so far this winter. I am having snow plow DT's this year.
How much is on the ground now, I wanna come play. My plow is lonely and feeling left out. Should be able to be there in 7 hours of driving.
That 89 7.3 is still and IDI motor, they are idential to the 6.9 as far as wiring goes.
I can talk you through the wiring of an IDI motor to a gasser harness in just a little bit.
As far as that goes you could go as new as a 94 IDI 7.3 turbo motor and the wiring is still the same as an 83 6.9 with only minor changes in the glow plug circuit.
The nightmare is installing a Power Stroke motor in something one did not come in.
How much is on the ground now, I wanna come play. My plow is lonely and feeling left out. Should be able to be there in 7 hours of driving.
That 89 7.3 is still and IDI motor, they are idential to the 6.9 as far as wiring goes.
I can talk you through the wiring of an IDI motor to a gasser harness in just a little bit.
As far as that goes you could go as new as a 94 IDI 7.3 turbo motor and the wiring is still the same as an 83 6.9 with only minor changes in the glow plug circuit.
The nightmare is installing a Power Stroke motor in something one did not come in.
Anyway, which do you think is the better engine, the 6.9 or 7.3? I've gotten a tad "twitchy" about the 7.3 cavitation problems, especially because I didn't have the engine I want to use, since it was new. I know what I have in my 6.9, it's been taken care of, and I like the C-6 better too, BUT, if there's more pros than cons to "moving up" to the 7.3, I just might shake the dice.
If it's not too much of a PITA, I sure be grateful if you'd talk me through the wiring of an IDI motor to a gasser harness. That would be the biggest hurdle for me, your help would be welcome and gratefully accepted.
If I ever decided to get a Powerstroke, I'd be sure to just go ahead and buy a cab and chassis already done. I've driven the Powerstroke, (97 and a 99 F-250, E40D), dragging a big long trailer, with a LOT of weight, through the mountains from So Cal up to WA with alarming regularity, (company owned, for work), and I was thoroughly impressed by their performance, and just plain old awesome power and ability to keep on doing it with no problems.
I'd never get back in a gasser, (hell I have two 460 powered trucks around here now), again. They just aren't half the truck the diesels are.
Anyway, you're more than welcome to come on up if you'd like, you can sit in the garage with me and drink coffee like I do, while we wait for the snow.
So I've got plenty of time to get a leg up on the planned motor swap this spring, (about the middle of July 
). Thanks a million for the offer to help. One tip though, if you wait long enough before you head up this way, I might pass ya during my move to SC! 
Oh! I've had a Ford diesel for over 10 years, but I never heard it referred to as an IDI engine, what's the IDI designation stand for?
Thanks again Dave!
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From: Buffoonalo, Yew Nork
Originally Posted by raydav
The control wiring for my 89 7.3 is rather simple -- now that I have the harness ripped apart. I am going to make two harnesses; one for the plugs and fuel related solenoids, and one for the sensors. I think they were combined just because it made assembly easier.
I received an engine manual today. My fuel filter has a fuel line heater and sensors for plugged filter and water. If my manual is correct that makes it something called a U-Haul model. The crankcase depression regulator valve is mounted on the intake manifold, directly on the rear of the air intake, rather than remote. The valve cover decal says 185 HP @ 3300. The door tag says Sept 88.
I received an engine manual today. My fuel filter has a fuel line heater and sensors for plugged filter and water. If my manual is correct that makes it something called a U-Haul model. The crankcase depression regulator valve is mounted on the intake manifold, directly on the rear of the air intake, rather than remote. The valve cover decal says 185 HP @ 3300. The door tag says Sept 88.
U-Haul model? Hopefully they put some extra, heavy duty goodies on it. I looked at some old U-Haul trucks, but the two that I looked at were clapped out, rusted up, former shadows of themselves, from NJ of all places. A fella would be upside down, money wise, starting on something like them.
Keep us updated on how it goes, what you discovered and how it gets done will ya? I know everyone would appreciate it. In fact, thanks a million in advance!
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Nutter Fort, WV
Well I have an 86 F250 that had a 6.9 stock from the factory that spent it's life as a NA motor. At about 275 thousand it was developing quite a thirst for oil on interstate speed trips. So I bought a reman 94 7.3 turbo complete drop in motor for it. You can not get that motor away from me even if you have a gun. I have never driven a 6.9 that had a turbo to compare it to, but I love the ATS turbo on my 7.3 with the three inch exhaust on it.
IDI stands for Indirect Injection.
The Power Stroke motors are Direct Injection.
Simple overview of the motor wiring.
The wiring harness comes off the passenger side inner fender well in two places.
The front harness only has wires going to the alternator in it and a pair of wires to the tach sensor.
Back a little farther is the main harness that has everything else in it.
Two big 10 guage wires to the glow plugs.
The ignition wire goes to two places, one is the IP fuel shutoff solenoid and the other is a coolant temp switch by the thermostat that has two prongs on it. The other wire that comes off that switch goes to the timing advance solenoid, fast idle solenoid and the fuel heater.
Then you have an oil pressure sending unit wire, the sender is in the rear center of the motor. I would use a mechanical guage and trash the electronic guage in the dash because it is junk. If you go mechanical this wire is eliminated.
On the front of the drivers side head there are two sending units for engine coolant temp. One goes to the guage and one goes to the idiot light. The stock temp guage is about the same as the oil guage, trash. If you go mechanical guage the guage wire will be eliminated, the idiot light I would hook up as an attention getter in case of overheating.
The starter solenoid that is there for the gas motor will stay where it is, but will be rewired a little in a minute.
These diesel motors have two starter solenoids on them. On a factory setup there are two batteries that have the ground wires running to the engine block seperately. The first battery positive post has a 2/0 copper wire running to the second battery positive post. From there the wire changes to a 3/0 copper that runs to the starter solenoid mounted on the starter.
Now back up to the gas starter solenoid. Use a 10 guage wire off the positive post of one of the batteries to one of the large terminals on the side. On the other large terminal use a 10 guage wire that will run down to the starter mounted solenoid trigger terminal (the small terminal on the lower solenoid).
This is the general wiring you will need to do to the engine to make it work.
When you are sure which engine you are using we can go into more detail about the glow plugs, fuel heater and water in fuel light because they are in different locations on the 7.3 than they are on the 6.9. Also the wires are different colors on the different motors. But as you see above you really only need one wire to make it run.
IDI stands for Indirect Injection.
The Power Stroke motors are Direct Injection.
Simple overview of the motor wiring.
The wiring harness comes off the passenger side inner fender well in two places.
The front harness only has wires going to the alternator in it and a pair of wires to the tach sensor.
Back a little farther is the main harness that has everything else in it.
Two big 10 guage wires to the glow plugs.
The ignition wire goes to two places, one is the IP fuel shutoff solenoid and the other is a coolant temp switch by the thermostat that has two prongs on it. The other wire that comes off that switch goes to the timing advance solenoid, fast idle solenoid and the fuel heater.
Then you have an oil pressure sending unit wire, the sender is in the rear center of the motor. I would use a mechanical guage and trash the electronic guage in the dash because it is junk. If you go mechanical this wire is eliminated.
On the front of the drivers side head there are two sending units for engine coolant temp. One goes to the guage and one goes to the idiot light. The stock temp guage is about the same as the oil guage, trash. If you go mechanical guage the guage wire will be eliminated, the idiot light I would hook up as an attention getter in case of overheating.
The starter solenoid that is there for the gas motor will stay where it is, but will be rewired a little in a minute.
These diesel motors have two starter solenoids on them. On a factory setup there are two batteries that have the ground wires running to the engine block seperately. The first battery positive post has a 2/0 copper wire running to the second battery positive post. From there the wire changes to a 3/0 copper that runs to the starter solenoid mounted on the starter.
Now back up to the gas starter solenoid. Use a 10 guage wire off the positive post of one of the batteries to one of the large terminals on the side. On the other large terminal use a 10 guage wire that will run down to the starter mounted solenoid trigger terminal (the small terminal on the lower solenoid).
This is the general wiring you will need to do to the engine to make it work.
When you are sure which engine you are using we can go into more detail about the glow plugs, fuel heater and water in fuel light because they are in different locations on the 7.3 than they are on the 6.9. Also the wires are different colors on the different motors. But as you see above you really only need one wire to make it run.
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From: Buffoonalo, Yew Nork
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
Well I have an 86 F250 that had a 6.9 stock from the factory that spent it's life as a NA motor. At about 275 thousand it was developing quite a thirst for oil on interstate speed trips. So I bought a reman 94 7.3 turbo complete drop in motor for it. You can not get that motor away from me even if you have a gun. I have never driven a 6.9 that had a turbo to compare it to, but I love the ATS turbo on my 7.3 with the three inch exhaust on it.
IDI stands for Indirect Injection.
The Power Stroke motors are Direct Injection.
Simple overview of the motor wiring.
The wiring harness comes off the passenger side inner fender well in two places.
The front harness only has wires going to the alternator in it and a pair of wires to the tach sensor.
Back a little farther is the main harness that has everything else in it.
Two big 10 guage wires to the glow plugs.
The ignition wire goes to two places, one is the IP fuel shutoff solenoid and the other is a coolant temp switch by the thermostat that has two prongs on it. The other wire that comes off that switch goes to the timing advance solenoid, fast idle solenoid and the fuel heater.
Then you have an oil pressure sending unit wire, the sender is in the rear center of the motor. I would use a mechanical guage and trash the electronic guage in the dash because it is junk. If you go mechanical this wire is eliminated.
On the front of the drivers side head there are two sending units for engine coolant temp. One goes to the guage and one goes to the idiot light. The stock temp guage is about the same as the oil guage, trash. If you go mechanical guage the guage wire will be eliminated, the idiot light I would hook up as an attention getter in case of overheating.
The starter solenoid that is there for the gas motor will stay where it is, but will be rewired a little in a minute.
These diesel motors have two starter solenoids on them. On a factory setup there are two batteries that have the ground wires running to the engine block seperately. The first battery positive post has a 2/0 copper wire running to the second battery positive post. From there the wire changes to a 3/0 copper that runs to the starter solenoid mounted on the starter.
Now back up to the gas starter solenoid. Use a 10 guage wire off the positive post of one of the batteries to one of the large terminals on the side. On the other large terminal use a 10 guage wire that will run down to the starter mounted solenoid trigger terminal (the small terminal on the lower solenoid).
This is the general wiring you will need to do to the engine to make it work.
When you are sure which engine you are using we can go into more detail about the glow plugs, fuel heater and water in fuel light because they are in different locations on the 7.3 than they are on the 6.9. Also the wires are different colors on the different motors. But as you see above you really only need one wire to make it run.
IDI stands for Indirect Injection.
The Power Stroke motors are Direct Injection.
Simple overview of the motor wiring.
The wiring harness comes off the passenger side inner fender well in two places.
The front harness only has wires going to the alternator in it and a pair of wires to the tach sensor.
Back a little farther is the main harness that has everything else in it.
Two big 10 guage wires to the glow plugs.
The ignition wire goes to two places, one is the IP fuel shutoff solenoid and the other is a coolant temp switch by the thermostat that has two prongs on it. The other wire that comes off that switch goes to the timing advance solenoid, fast idle solenoid and the fuel heater.
Then you have an oil pressure sending unit wire, the sender is in the rear center of the motor. I would use a mechanical guage and trash the electronic guage in the dash because it is junk. If you go mechanical this wire is eliminated.
On the front of the drivers side head there are two sending units for engine coolant temp. One goes to the guage and one goes to the idiot light. The stock temp guage is about the same as the oil guage, trash. If you go mechanical guage the guage wire will be eliminated, the idiot light I would hook up as an attention getter in case of overheating.
The starter solenoid that is there for the gas motor will stay where it is, but will be rewired a little in a minute.
These diesel motors have two starter solenoids on them. On a factory setup there are two batteries that have the ground wires running to the engine block seperately. The first battery positive post has a 2/0 copper wire running to the second battery positive post. From there the wire changes to a 3/0 copper that runs to the starter solenoid mounted on the starter.
Now back up to the gas starter solenoid. Use a 10 guage wire off the positive post of one of the batteries to one of the large terminals on the side. On the other large terminal use a 10 guage wire that will run down to the starter mounted solenoid trigger terminal (the small terminal on the lower solenoid).
This is the general wiring you will need to do to the engine to make it work.
When you are sure which engine you are using we can go into more detail about the glow plugs, fuel heater and water in fuel light because they are in different locations on the 7.3 than they are on the 6.9. Also the wires are different colors on the different motors. But as you see above you really only need one wire to make it run.
I copied and pasted your instructions and will take a look at the setup I have an see if I can recognize what wires you're talking about in that big ball under the hood of my truck. 
Yep, I know exactly what you mean when you say that you love your truck. I feel the same way about mine and I can hardly wait to get the swap done. I think you'd be happy with a turbo'd 6.9, I know I am. I've thrown a LOT of stuff at it and it has never failed me, not once. I do think that I'm gonna stick with the 6.9 for now, I know that motor and transmission, although I don't baby it, I have taken care of it. When I wear it out, then I'll try out that 7.3.
Once again, I can't thank you enough for the help, it's really appreciated. Like I said, you're Da Man!
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: APPLE VALLEY
Fuel system
I do not have any specs on the supply pump -- I think some may refer to it as a lift pump. I assume it is a typical, low pressure pump used to get fuel from the tank and get it up to the distribution pump.
I have three fuel tanks. Each has it's own frame mounted pump and screen pre filter. Prior to the carb there is a paper filter. I can feed from one, two or all three. Is there any reason I cannot route my existing system to the diesel filter, remove my paper filter, remove and block off the existing supply pump, create a fuel return system, and call it done? Is there anything possibly incompatible?
I have three fuel tanks. Each has it's own frame mounted pump and screen pre filter. Prior to the carb there is a paper filter. I can feed from one, two or all three. Is there any reason I cannot route my existing system to the diesel filter, remove my paper filter, remove and block off the existing supply pump, create a fuel return system, and call it done? Is there anything possibly incompatible?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: APPLE VALLEY
Originally Posted by racingstudebaker
Keep us updated on how it goes, what you discovered and how it gets done will ya?
Yesterday I was reminded of some things when dealing with old wiring; degraded connectors, insulators, insulation, wire.....
A couple of the GP connector insulators had long ago crumbled and another did when I touched it.
When rewiring don't be overly influenced by the OEM configuration. That was designed for ease of installation, not service, or even because it was logical. There are two parallel wires feeding the GP controller because the connector they wanted to use could not carry all the necessary current in a single contact. This is a standard technique, sometimes many pins are paralleled. But when you are working your own vehicle that circuit does not need a connector. Also they used a lot of extra wire and several connector pins to place the water-in-fuel module on the engine rather than at the indicator.
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From: Buffoonalo, Yew Nork
Thanks for the info on the wiring raydav. Trust me, I'm paying attention and keeping everything that I get. I just wish I could be working on mine too, but not 'til spring for me. 
I have to drive from here, (Buffoonalo), to Long Island to pick up my 5th wheel, and I have to use one of my trucks with a 460, what a bummer....
I have to drive from here, (Buffoonalo), to Long Island to pick up my 5th wheel, and I have to use one of my trucks with a 460, what a bummer....
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
I would still use two wires for the glow plugs, one for the left bank and one for the right bank. That circuit draws close to 70 Amps. Even using two terminals in the connector that Ford used it still melts.
The three tank system will take a little thought to get the return fuel going to the right tank. I would almost use two tank selector valves like the stock truck uses so when you flip the switch both the supply and return are switched at the same time.
An error or unknowing person could cause a fuel spill otherwise.
The three tank system will take a little thought to get the return fuel going to the right tank. I would almost use two tank selector valves like the stock truck uses so when you flip the switch both the supply and return are switched at the same time.
An error or unknowing person could cause a fuel spill otherwise.
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Mountain Pass
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From: APPLE VALLEY
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
I would still use two wires for the glow plugs, one for the left bank and one for the right bank. That circuit draws close to 70 Amps. Even using two terminals in the connector that Ford used it still melts.
The three tank system will take a little thought to get the return fuel going to the right tank. I would almost use two tank selector valves like the stock truck uses so when you flip the switch both the supply and return are switched at the same time.
An error or unknowing person could cause a fuel spill otherwise.
The three tank system will take a little thought to get the return fuel going to the right tank. I would almost use two tank selector valves like the stock truck uses so when you flip the switch both the supply and return are switched at the same time.
An error or unknowing person could cause a fuel spill otherwise.
As for the brown wires from the controller to the plugs, I may home run all eight of those. OEM harnesses often have splices buried in them. That makes it easy to install but hard to service.
As for the fuel system, I can create a passive fuel return that will not overflow a tank. The outlets are separate but the overflow ports are connected. My question is about using the existing hardware; the electric pumps and remove the supply pump that is on the engine. Also I encountered a catalog listing for gas tanks that said not for diesel use; no explanation.
I am assuming the fuel return system is from bleed-off that is used to regulate fuel delivery. There are fuel return lines from the filter, injection pump and injectors. Anyone have any idea what percentage of the fuel delivered to the filter is returned to the tank?
The manual says when draining the filter sump to catch the fuel. But, the end of the drain tube is over the cross member and inaccessible. That is going to get rerouted.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
There is a fair amount of return fuel at higher RPM's, enough to warm the tank while driving. I can not give you an amount though.
Yes the wiring does leave a bit to be desired several places on the vehicle.
I installed a pair of relays on the headlights to get the headlight amperage out of the headlight switch before it burns up. That made my headlights lots brighter since they are hooked up with #10 wire now instead of the little # 16 that Ford used.
With all the trailer towing I do, I am also going to install a relay on my park light circuit this summer.
Looking at the wiring harness on my truck, I think I could cut 10 pounds of wire out, have everyting work better than it does now, and not have such a mess of wire under the dash and engine compartment.
Yes the wiring does leave a bit to be desired several places on the vehicle.
I installed a pair of relays on the headlights to get the headlight amperage out of the headlight switch before it burns up. That made my headlights lots brighter since they are hooked up with #10 wire now instead of the little # 16 that Ford used.
With all the trailer towing I do, I am also going to install a relay on my park light circuit this summer.
Looking at the wiring harness on my truck, I think I could cut 10 pounds of wire out, have everyting work better than it does now, and not have such a mess of wire under the dash and engine compartment.
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Mountain Pass
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From: APPLE VALLEY
Misc
The 89 7.3 and a new E4OD is bolted in where the 84 460\E4OD was.
The mount platforms had to accompany the engine. They were both bolted and riveted in the 89. I also had to remove one rivet in the 84 because it was in a hole that the platform needed.
The 7.3 is a bit wider than the 640. Also there seems to be some sort of tooling shift. There is clearance on the drivers side but the valve cover is against sheet metal on the passenger side. If I add a spacer to the passenger side and let it slide up the slot on the drivers side I can balance the spacing, but then it will be higher, and overhead clearance of both engine and trans is already limited. To get the E4OD in there originally I jacked it up into the floor until the floor was deformed enough to provide clearance. I think I will rework the sheet metal.
I have encountered limited comments regarding compatibility of fuel system parts between gas and diesel. Are there any parts that have a problem going from gas it diesel or diesel to gas, and why? I currently have two steel and one plastic gas tanks. The diesel donor has the same two tanks as my steel ones, and I could swap, but I really don't want to spend the time right now.
TY
Ray
The mount platforms had to accompany the engine. They were both bolted and riveted in the 89. I also had to remove one rivet in the 84 because it was in a hole that the platform needed.
The 7.3 is a bit wider than the 640. Also there seems to be some sort of tooling shift. There is clearance on the drivers side but the valve cover is against sheet metal on the passenger side. If I add a spacer to the passenger side and let it slide up the slot on the drivers side I can balance the spacing, but then it will be higher, and overhead clearance of both engine and trans is already limited. To get the E4OD in there originally I jacked it up into the floor until the floor was deformed enough to provide clearance. I think I will rework the sheet metal.
I have encountered limited comments regarding compatibility of fuel system parts between gas and diesel. Are there any parts that have a problem going from gas it diesel or diesel to gas, and why? I currently have two steel and one plastic gas tanks. The diesel donor has the same two tanks as my steel ones, and I could swap, but I really don't want to spend the time right now.
TY
Ray
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From: Buffoonalo, Yew Nork
Hmm... I hope there's more room in my '86. I do have a little blank in the dash panel, under the headlight switch, for a diesel warning panel. Mebbe that means it was diesel friendly. I sure would like to avoid any sheetmetal work. Hopefully they got their tooling shift straightened out by '86.
I'm also wondering, was it an E40D or a C-6 behind the 460? Are the cases the same on either transmission?
Thanks a million for keeping us updated raydav, it sure helps me.
I'm also wondering, was it an E40D or a C-6 behind the 460? Are the cases the same on either transmission?
Thanks a million for keeping us updated raydav, it sure helps me.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
Radav are we having fun yet?
Kinda sounds like you might be.
I have had one 6.9 and three 7.3 engines in my F250 in the last year. Every one of them sat just a little different.
The difference seems to be the motor mount holes are not exactly the same in any of the blocks.
Kinda sounds like you might be.
I have had one 6.9 and three 7.3 engines in my F250 in the last year. Every one of them sat just a little different.
The difference seems to be the motor mount holes are not exactly the same in any of the blocks.