CJK440: All of the big three produced a few muscle cars in 1970 that had the prior years motors still in them as they were allowed to use up their existing stock . Few of these went to the domestic market at dealerships as most were snapped up by the executives and so on that knew they were the last of the line .

It was the regulations on the compression ratio used that killed the cars not the death of the hemi . The 426 Hemi was the street model but also came in tow trucks etc with a different crank and stroke which made it a boat anchor for the street . It was also one of the most cantankerous hard to fine tune beast that Chryco ever built and was usually passed over for a more versatile powerplant for every day use .

As I posted earlier , if you want to know for sure when the real muscle cars
were no longer being produced just go to a sale or auction where they are being sold and check the going price for those after '69 and '70 compared to
those manufactured before this . Most are being bought by collectors who are putting out $25,000 to $35,000 for factory original by buyers who live and breath original Muscle Cars while the later ones can be picked up for as little as $5,000 to $7,000 . 1970 was also the year they started to add bells and whistles and a/c etc. to them to make them more attractive to the regular market not just us piston head rodders . I recently passed up a mint original
71 Challanger in burnt orange and black with a 340 auto and factory air for
$9,500 that eventually sold for $8,100 . This car in a '69 or '70 with no air and a 4 speed would go for $19,500 to $22,000 in a flash .

 

CJK440 is right about mopar muscle being made until the '71 year. The '72 440 had a compression rate about 40% less than the 71's.

Jerry- If it had been a B-body with a Hemi in it, it would have gone for for an easy 50,000.

 

Jerry, any info on that 340 Challenger?? The hottest mopar products out there are the E-bodies (cuda and challengers) that were first built in 1970 -74. It doesn't matter if their stock, modified, slant six or whatever. Their hot. I'd snap that up in a heartbeat for under $10k cause its worth an easy 20k. Better yet, what auctions are you going to?? I'd sure like to get stuff for the prices your quoting.

I'm not familiar with the regulations imposed by the government (I wasn't even born yet ). I always thought the gas crisis coupled with insurance premiums were the big reason but I'll take your word for it on the compression ratios. However while that may have spelt the end of Musclecars to the manufactures in 70, it took a couple years before it impacted the consumer which really is what matters. You could get a 340, 383, 440 or 426 in 70-71 Cudas and Challengers but in 72 the biggest engine offered in both was the 340, you couldn't even get a low comp bigblock anymore in those cars. I'd still consider a 73 340 challenger a musclecar but definately on the downslope of the muscle car era. I'd agree that the 426 Hemi was a touchy thing but defiantely a beast of a motor. Horsepower was the point & if it was a bit tempermental, so be it.

Also, whats the deal with the stroked Hemi in dump trucks. Never heard such a thing. I know the first generation hemi was available in different displacements but never, ever, ever heard of a 2nd generation (426 based) Hemi with a displacement other than 426 cubic inches. Got any info cause I'd really love to see it.

With convertable '71 hemicudas changing hands for over a documented 1 mil, I have a hard time beleiving that post 70 cars are worth less than their earlier counterparts. At least in the Mopar camp, not all too familiar with the the GM/Ford values so maybe that why I see things a bit differently than you.

While I don't consider ebay the guide to musclecar values at all you can still use it to pick out whats hot & whats not. 70 & 71 cars are not cheap and neither are 72-74 stuff.

 

CJK440: I hear you with your opinion that the term muscle car should extend beyond the restrictions on the compression ratio but my view has always been that if you have to modify a vehicle to obtain the same performance and ground pounds as a previous model it becomes a street rod not a muscle car .

Presently putting the final ovecoat on a '65 Acadian 2 dr. hardtop that is now a 327 -400 hp 4 gear to a 9" Ford posi. from a '68 Cougar that will no doubt blow most factory muscle cars off come dry asphalt time and although it was built in the muscle car days by GM as a six auto what we have done now makes it a street rod not a muscle car .

There are 11 actual muscle cars in our Cruisers club here , 4 of them being Road Runners . 1 all original 383 ram air, 1 all original 440 six pak , 1 440 that replaced a 383 and one that was originally a hemi and now is a 383 .

The non originals were purchased for $14,000 and $18,000 respectivly and
the 383 ram air was $26,000 while the 440 six pak was $29,500 .

The originals are both '69's and the altered are a 70 and 71 .

Only the $18,000 original was purchased in Can. at the Auto Show in Barrie Ont. all the others were bought through Auto Traders from Georgia , Florida and Arkansas and those prices are in US Greenbacks so worth a chunk more above the 49th .

My partner is in Florida this week picking up a '70 GTX 440 six pak for $18,500
to trailer home if it is in the advertised condition with the documentation to go with it .

Some muscle cars still go pretty reasonable in the $13,000 to $15,000 range such as the 440 Rebel "The Machine" which one of the members just picked up in excellent original condition for $15,000 .

If you start by looking at the most sought after muscle cars you are always going to pay through the nose like buying a '57 or '55 Chevy 2dr ht.for $50,000 to $55,000 while a '56 2dr. sedan will bring about $8,000 . Works the same with muscle car sales.

I don't know that much about the 426 Hemi's Chrysler marketed in the 3 ton to 5 ton truck line or exactly what the crank difference was but have been told by more than one Mopar guru that they are no good for the street .

There is still one around town in a '65 Dodge Tow Truck which is the one I am familiar with . I will see what I can run down on it . Nice restored truck though
as an eye catcher at a towing company .

My only Hemi was a 391 in a 59 Dodge Sarasota . would not eat up the boys off the line but did float real nice around 100mph with power still to burn .

The Hemi did not make it a muscle car though and I was not even aware it had one when I bought it in '65.

By the way the 383 ram air original '69 Runner was all original when bought except the stereo which was an Alpine . The owner had to pay $500 US for an original AM Radio with the road runner on it at a scrap yard in Georgia from a car that had little left of it but the radio to bring it to stock original condition . Pretty steep for an AM radio but it ups his appraisal by $3,000.

 

I had no idea the Road Runners were bringing that kind of money these days. A friend has a complete '69 that I'll be dropping a 383 into within the next week or so. It's in fairly decent shape, just in a lot of pieces, as it's been for quite some time. He wants to get it on the road by this summer. -TD

 

i thought that is where at.

 

TigerDan: Only bring the bucks if they are all original with matching No# .like any collectable or vintage auto .

That was an interesting post on the Sunbeam Tiger history and I forwarded it to a friend here that has a 289 model .

I'm sure they would have boogied with the Mopar 273 Power Pak in them if that had of worked out . Had one in an early Cuda which is the wheels I honed my bang shift skills on many years ago and not much in the area walked the walk
beside that little beauty . The 273 was the predesessor of the 340 Power Pak .

Hang onto that Tiger , they certainly are a nice little sports car and sort of like a working man's Cobra eh!

 

dan
i meant the austin healy 3000. some how i'm thinking i saw one with a 327 chevy in it. the roadrunner super bird was a very rare one with a hemi in it as most had 383 or 440 motors with 3x2's for the carbs, jerry is correct about matching numbers bring up the price. original paper work helps even more

 

Captain: we once mounted a Mustang 289 and tranny in a Triumph Tiger with much cutting and fabricating and had to change the seats and alter the floor boards to mount the shift lever as well . It went like a raped ape but we soon discovered the front end was much too light and had to MaGyver a front end under it as well .

Of course this was in the days before we were regulated to death for our own good .

Our life long rivals put a 283 chevy in a Vega as well but it would not do the tricks without about 300 lb. of 160lb rail boxed in at the diff as it was far too light in the bum for that kind of ground pounds .

Dual exhaust on my 240Z when we Can Amed it were fabricated from 2 - 650 BSA mufflers . Worked and sounded just like Datsun's only much cheaper .

Those were the days my friend .

 

Charlie: the AH3000 was quite popular for stuffing a small block Chevy into, I've seen several of them. Me, I'd use a Ford, of course! I have a friend who has a Triumph Stag with a Ford 289 in it, and another who has one that he swapped a Chevy into. Very clean job. He was considering the Ford, but for some reason went with the Chevy. Oh well. -TD

 

those where the days for sure. i can close my eyes and see all of my old toyes still. worst part is every photo i had was a slide and they have all turned black, stuffing in motors was my way of life. best job was a 1936 pontiac 3 window coupe, pulled out the inline 8 , trans and rear. welded up a set of frame mounts to use the stock 65 389 gto mounts, a super t10 trans, then took a 58 olds rear end housing and brakes , a 59 to 64 olds rear center, shortened the late axles by cuting and welding them by the bearing machined them back down so stock bearings would work, put in a ford econoline front end, redrilled the brakes to the olds pattern, the 389 motor was 060 over ,ram air heads, that super wild gto solid lifter cam. 2x4 carbs and it all fit under the stock closed 36 hood side panels. so no one knew unless you started it then the motor said hot very hot,street drove it every summer untill it was stolen now that was a muscle car
oh did several vega chevy small block jobs also too easy.

 

^^lol Good Luck, Your Gonna Need It

Anyway i have a '70 Camaro 350 4-speed....it had an automatic but i found the 4-speed parts and made the swap, and soon enough im gonna pull the engine and rebuild it

 

i agree with ya there...i see all these people buying original hemi cudas and superbirds for $200,000 and up, and all they do is trailer them to shows and let them collect dust in the garage

if i just paid over $200,000 for a car there's no way in hell that thing would sit in the garage....id be doing burnouts, slammin through the gears, finding some competition on the street to blow away...and if something ever broke then id have to fix it, no offence but in my opinion these trailer queen guys are sissies

 

Captain : Sounds like you were never fond of doing things the easy way for sure . Quite a project that sounds like . My fathers first car was a '36 Pontiac 3 window coupe and the rumble seat . I fondly recall riding 15 mi. out to the farm to visit Granny and Pops in that rumble seat . Straight eight and the big long farm shift we called it . He bought it used when I was 9 and he and his buddy painted it with all the left over enamel paint in the body shop so you probably know the putrid dark green color that is obtained when you do this .

That car was sold to a collector 75 miles from here who restored it to it's original Navy Blue and had all the nickle plating redone . He has now passed and his son has the collection of 8 or 9 cars . He sometimes has it in a local parade for something or other and I still get a look at every once in a while .

I would only take on those projects that required one to have 16 fingers and 4 elbows and would use up the head scratching power of a mechanical engineer on snowmobiles . Much smaller parts to swear at or break .

 

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call trailer queen owners sissies, but I'd have to agree that I've never understood the trailer queen mentality. While I don't know if I'd actually be reckless in a 200,000 dollar car, I would sure as hell drive it! I know that many poeple restore their cars to showroom condition, right down to the factory window stickers and original hoses and belts, and then trailer them to shows, only running them long enough to get off and on the trailer. Okay, if that's your thing...but what was a car designed for? To be driven! Give me a muscle car, no matter what it is or how rare and valuable, and I'm gonna drive it, thank you very much! Yeah, if it's worth a quarter mil I'll be a bit more careful of it, but I'll still drive it. -TD