re: Frequent Trades. There was a time when late model used 'Burbs brought the moon. I'd buy on the GM equivalent of the Ford "A" plan, less additional rebates (you really learn to time purchases by rebates, not necessity), let the wife drive the truck about 10K miles, and trade it in on the next one. Typical depreciation was $300-$500 (no typo). I think I actually made a little money on one of 'em. At any rate, if you can drive a new anything for a year and lose less than a grand, it makes sense (at least it does to me). When the used 'Burb market softened up, we bought a slightly-used Expy, which we just sold after about 13 months. I actually came out ahead a couple bucks on that one, but it was a really good buy going in.

On the other hand, we've still got a '93 F150 that I just flipped to my 17 yr old, and a '98 Grand Marquis that I also picked up slightly used. Both rigs have given us outstanding service- the F150 never had a repair outside of routine wear-out items until well over 100K miles, and I'm still waiting on the Mercury (84K presently). I'm just waiting patiently to see what I replace the Expy with.

edit: my remark on the Ranger. I wasn't trying to be a smart mouth- it's just that if/when you come across one that's trouble, it's been my experience to unload it and move on rather than try to battle out the fixes.

 

No offense taken...and I didn't think about buying them on the equivalent of the "A" plan. My uncle (former new GM salesman in Delaware) used to do the same thing before he retired. Just about the same way...would buy one heavily discounted, drive it for a year or two, keep the miles down and cosmetics up, and usually make a little on it. It makes sense...

The only negative thing about trying to unload the Ranger...I was buried in it pretty good, so I was already hurtin' too much to suffer any more loss. We actually got out of it pretty good when we traded for the wife's 02 Explorer. I don't miss the Ranger for a second. Hope I never have another such bad experience!

 

I understand. The wierd thing is I've got Rangers out in fleet service and the darned things are almost indestructable. Again, there's always that 1 that's the exception, which is of no help if it's parked in your own driveway.

One thing I have noticed in the past few years- we're out of the little niggly "adjustment phase" with new cars. Either they run flawlessly from the time they come off of the convoy truck, or you absolutely can't keep 'em out of the shop. There just doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

 

Well,first let me say that all of you have shown some real class in this discussion.Seriously!As most of you know,I am a mechanic,and have been one all my life.The majority of the time was working on that stupid ranger!Just kidding!But for the most part I have worked on Fords.I spent a little time in the early 80`s working for GM,and this past 9 months working at a dealership that sells GM,Chrysler,and Jeep.I can fairly say,that for the most part they ALL make a decent product.The thing that bugs me most,is when they tamper with things that have a proven track record.The carrier bearings for instance.Ford has them,GM has them,Chrysler has them,They have been around for ever!So,Im no metalurgist(sp?)but it seems to me that it was pretty stupid on somebody`s part to tamper with a race that they knew worked the way it was.Because somebody somewhere cut a corner to cheapen cost,these races are failing right and left.And no,it was not to make them lighter,if you matched one up to say something from the 70`s it still looks and weighs the same.And then on to the ball joints,another product that has been around for years.hasn`t anybody ever told these dummies,If it works DONT MESS WITH IT!Now on to a lighter note,,,,A guy brought in a brand new deluxe model Cadillac,loaded,mega bucks car.He is very ticked off,to say the least.He says,I just bought this car,paid $xxxxxxx for it,and it rattles worse than my old pick-up truck.So,I put it in the air,look underneth,and sure as heck,the exhaust system was smashed almost flat into the floorboards!I call him over to look at it,He says,Oh yeah,my wife said she ran over a parking block.Duh!

 

Very true. However, I have the opportunity to put a micrometer on every single part that goes into my engine. It's that kind of build quality and attention to detail that the manufacturers can NEVER match. If I dont want a part made in China or Mexico, I dont have to buy it.

And if something doesn't measure up, it gets sent back.

So yes, if you're buying new, you really are at the mercy of the manufacturers. I simply chose not to play their game.

 

I have this firm belief that when you let accountants make engineering decisions, this is what happens.

 

Wow Ernie. I think your a helluva guy, and have a lot of respect for you, but I MUST politely disagree on the quality comparison of then to now, plastic plastic plastic, we have an 01 mazda 626 that Ang drives mostly, I cant stand it, plastic hinges, it already creaks, its gutless, and only gets about 21 mPG in exchange for the complete lack of power, the quality IMO is not there, I drive her truck every day while mine is in metamorphis....steel steel steel. Ill trade the 10MPG for the power any day, it just seems like its built ford tough, Im a firm believer in the they dont make em like they use to.

but I guess a lot of my disagreement with you is opinion......

carry on this intriguing discussion men....

 

Kevin-

it's probably our timeframes that are differerent. I hand the keys to a new Ranger to a local parts house (they have 8 of 'em). The trucks get driven around town by young drivers all day. Multiple drivers, stop and go traffic, and you know the things get beat on. They roll 50-75K miles a year on those trucks, and get replaced at about 150K, with a clutch and a few sets of brakes in the interim. I see sales reps drive cars and trucks well over 200K miles now with just routine stuff (oil changes, brakes, shocks). I think the recent record holder was an equipment rental place that traded a 2000 F150 with over 300k miles on it- and it still ran and drove.

But...big but...on the newer cars/trucks, I think the powertrains will outlive the bodies, especially the plastic pieces. The other thing is the newer vehicles have a level of complexity (electronics, etc) that makes it cost effective to unload them when they do wear out. Motor wears out on an older Ford truck- just stuff in a crate motor for a few grand and you're good to go. Newer truck? The electronics, if they fail, will cost many times what the motor will.

Gotta run- go play in the mud with Edward and the group!

The Northwest Chapter of FTE
we don't get lost,
we just get found

 

how about paying the tech what hes worth to fix it correctly when there is a problem . most dealers are hitting $100.00 per hour. what % do us techs get of that?. build car thats a bit easier to fix that would help also. the best thing would be bring back good first qual. parts to begin with not garbage made over seas or down south some where.
don't get me going to much here i'm hot enough over what i have to fix and cheap parts.

 

Somewhere in the archives I have another rant about recalls and how the manufacturers stick it to us.I just love going outside,scraping the ice off a car,driving it in,putting it in the air,going to the parts counter,getting a part,installing the part,putting the car back outside,filling out the love story that they make you write for every workorder,all for a whoppin .2hrs.