I, and several people I know, have taken our trucks to the local Ford dealerships for various problems over the years and almost none have had satifactory results. My truck, when I got it in '86, was getting about 16 to 21 mpg until I had the 15,000 checkup/tuneup done. Since then I have 215,000 and it has never gotten more than 12.5 mpg (they can figure out why, they just tuned it up/down in my opinion). I had an ignition problem I couldn't diagnose so, at a complete loss, I took it to Ford...it took them all day and over 200.00 to determine that it had a bad computer ground on the battery cable (it still ran like ##### until I replaced the distributor). A friend of mine has a pinging problem on a '94 Ranger and to date no one, at Ford, can figure out why. It goes on and on adding up to big dollars for some of the less mechanical of us. I just don't understand, if all these mechanics are Ford trained, what the hell is happening. Most of the problems I have I can get solved by posting here or on other groups .



"GOD BLESS THE INTERNET!!!!!!"

JohnF

 

The pinging problem in your friends ranger could be the temperature sender. NOT the one for the gauge the one for the computer. I think there are two temp senders. try replacing the one for the computer. what is happening is that the computer is getting the wrong information as to the engines temperature, therfore using the wrong fuel lookup tables. This problem is not just on trucks. the tarus engines and my dads 94 F-150 with a 302 had the pinging problem too. it only costs a few bucks.

As far as dealerships go, I could write a War-and-Peace novel about why dealer service is so terible. mostly everyone expects those computer scanners to to hand them the answer to the problem your vehicle has like a genie in a bottle. What they do not teach young technicians to do is problem solving. to make matters worse is that the way modern engine management systems work is not as simple as testing a few components and replaceing a bad one. There are too many components that affect how others work. you could replace several components before you get to the real problem. and to make it worse is YOU have to pay for the guessing. cause if the mechanic didn't get paid for it there would be no mechanics to complain about. and to top it off, enroll in an automotive course at your local Community College and look at those kids taking the course. one maybe two in a class of 15 or 20 will even care enough to try and learn whats going on. the rest already have jobs as mechanics and don't need to listen to the instructor. I listened to stories about how they "mangled this dudes front clip, to install a new A/C compressor" when I confronted this individual about his questionable technique his response was "I don't give a F$#k, its not my car and besides the idiot payed for it and was happy that he had A/C. He'll never open his hood anyways." that was just ONE of MANY stories I heard.

If you are a technician and are ofended by this, it means that you are prolly one of the FEW that know whats going on. And you DO care about the quality of the work you perform. But facts are facts I have not had ONE instance of me taking a vehicle to a mechanic and getting acceptable results. on the other hand I have many cases where I have caught various dealers and shops Padding the ticket to get more money out of me.

 

You guys are going about it all the wrong way! Just lease your self a new one every 2 years and take it in under warrenty every time. Ford then foots the bill and you can take it back again, and again, and again until it is right!

 

I stopped taking my vehicles into shops for repairs when I was 18. with the only exceptions being when I had a broken leg and couldn't repair it myself, when I KNEW exactly how difficult the reapir was going to be and "thought it would be worth making some poor sap do it flat-rate" or if purchasing the proper equiptment was out of the question. each time I regretted not doing it myself. Now I do EVERYTHING myself cause if anyone is gonna screw up my ride its gonna be ME, beside I can do it in less time and cheaper then a dealer can. AND STILL have money left to do it right the second time before I spend half what it would cost me at the dealer. Even if I have to guess and I guess wrong 5 times its still cheaper than the $100 it would cost you to have a dealer tell you "youre right its broken"

 

I haven't taken my vehicles to the dealer in years now but it just burns me to think how many people are getting reamed by these guys. Car dealers spend, probably, millions brainwashing people convincing them how good their service departments are and, in my personal experience, can rarely back it up in deed. My son and I are constantly asked by family members and friends to look at their cars because they've spent hundreds at the dealers and all they end up with are new belts and radiator hoses and the same old problems.

(SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSizzle)

I know it's not just Ford but all my vehicles are Fords (except my VW's)

JohnF

 

I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess. Semms like the mechanic I work with gets the problem solved first time, every time. His son is the same way, the son taught the father the new computer technology while the father knows the older engines well. Ironically, both have closed their shops down and work from their homes, as their landlords kept raising their rents as they brought in more and more customers. Prior to their shutting down, they had been were deluged with problem vehicles from the DEALERS, whose own mechanics only knew the "replace and hope it works" technique. I see a future where cars are designed to simply be re-cycled when they start to run rough.

 

All I can say is I agree I have been screwed very time I have been to a dealership and have on several times had to repair thier goof-ups. I am the only one that repairs my vehicals. The pinging problem is most likely the temp sensor or a bad knock sensor or wiring going to one or both.

400m

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. "It's the mechanics, stupid." as some presidential campaigns would say. There is no path to mechanichood taught in our school system any more, nor is there one to machinist or tool and die maker. They are looked down on as 'unskilled' by those that could do the jobs well. Every one wants to be a lawyer or wall street millionaire. Noone wants to do any actual work, you know, like turning wrenches or physical action. Except for those that have gasoline in their blood, and ENJOY making something work the way it is spozta, most 'mechanics' are parts-replacers, trying to beat the flat rate. I know, they have to keep food on the table, and pay the mortgage, and everything else. They CANNOT afford to do much more than be parts replacers. They will get their lunch eaten on flat rate because it DOES NOT INCLUDE DIAGNOSIS. Thimk! (take off on old IBM sign) I'm sure that all of the would like to do the job right, but people want their cars repaired as cheaply as possible, and are not willing to pay what it would/could take to chase down that "tail light that burns out every 10th time you step on the brakes in reverse." One could spend a DAY trying to find that problem. At $50/hr loaded rate, that would be $400, and no guarantee that it would be fixed in a day.
There is a disconnect here in that we, as consumers, want things fixed as cheaply as possible, and the mechanics want to do as many repairs as possible in a work day so as to maximize their daily income. I, for one, would be willing to pay a little extra to have a job done, done once, and correcting the original problem. I don't think most dealers are the places to go for that kind of solution. The independent shops that have been there for 20+ years beckon to me for jobs I don't or can't do myself.
Too bad everyone wants the SUV, powerboat, camping trailer, the 46" projection TV, new furniture, carpet, drapes, and clothes. "I WANT IT ALL" yet don't want to work for it. I drive a '87 car and '85 truck, and my wife has a '97? T-bird. Some of the furniture is older than I am, and thats old, and I am happy with what I have. The reason that there are 'lock box' kids with Mom at work is that there is demand for all that stuff. We CHOOSE to have both parents work, unless we chose to skip education as 'something I'll never need', and are stuck at flipping burger pay scale. Somehow, we, as a nation, have chosen to forget that there are jobs other than "college education required". When I was in high school, there was a radial aircraft engine in the stairwell. It had been used for one of the classes. No longer. They did not have shop class, either wood or metal. No mechanical drawing class. I had all three in the 7th/8th grade in Massachusetts junior high school, but no longer in High school. Betcha can't find any of that in the local high schools any more. If you can find it, most students turn their nose up at it. I know it makes no sense, but I kind of regret getting a degree, 4 years Naval officer, 20+ years as a computer person, and wish I had dumped college, and gone to work as a mechanic. I ENJOYED fixing things. Starting up that rebuilt engine and hearing it run so smooth. Nailing it back together, and having the customer so pleased. It was right there in front of me, not miles away and hidden from sight, as computer systems are. Financially, it would have been stupid, but maybe I would have had a happier and more satisfied feeling at the end of each day. Maybe not.
Rant over.
Rev the beans out of that Ranger, hold it in 2nd if auto to about 50-55mph for a mile or so, 3rd if a 5-speed. It probably has carbon build up that will come clean if you rap it out a bit. The '86 has EFI, so there is not much they could have done to mess up the mileage except move the distributor.

tom

 

I think what we're saying is, we're training technicians instead of mechanics, hoping they will pick up the mechanical aspect on the job. Unfortunately, it usually doesn't happen.

Last time I took a truck to the dealer (about 10 years ago) to diagnose a hesitation on throttle, (my specific instructions to them was to call me with a diagnosis and not replace anything) they called and said the computer listed 6 error codes and the only thing they could do was start replacing things item by item until the problem went away. I said, Don't, I'll be right there to pick it up". By the time I arrived they had re-run the diagnostic test and it came up with a different half-dozen things that were wrong. Naturally their recommendation was a new brain, and naturally, I took it home without a new one.

200,000 miles later its running fine and the only adjustment I made was a $2.50 tune up - opened up the plate on the throttle body and cleaned the carbon out with a can of choke and throttle body cleaner.

 

Hey, to tomw: AMEN, BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!! I agree 100% I wish more people felt like you and I.

 

Your right about it being the "mechanics" the dealership term is a generalization. They are not teaching them to be a mechanic with the right skills of problem solving My problems were not always the cost it was doing the job right, when I had to fix what they did wrong and I had to pay for it twice makes me mad. Now I was a "mechanic for my years through collage(5 years Bachelors of Architecture) and practice in my field but I should not have better skills then someone who does it for a living. I build race engines and stuff on the side because I love it but I don't do it for a living. If I did the same in my field then buildings would fall down, people would die in fires etc. that is what agrivates me and why I repair my own vehicals and those of familly members.

400m