We have a 1993 Pace Arrow on the F53 chassis, with the 460 engine. About 60K miles on the clock.

It used to always start easily and run on the first crank, run perfectly, and idle smooth as silk. Just recently it decided not to cold-start so easily. I now have to crank the engine intermittently several times over a period of several minutes to get it to start when the engine is cold, such as after sitting overnight. When it does finally start, the "check engine" light comes on. It idles roughly, and black crud comes out the exhaust, and the "check engine" light stays on. It does this for about 8-10 minutes, until the engine apparently warms up. After the engine apparently warms up I hear a fairly loud distinct "click" from somewhere in the engine compartment, and simultaneously with the "click" sound the idle immediately smooths out and the "check engine" light goes off. This happens only when I cold-start the rig. It runs like a champ once I hear the "click" noise----simultaneous with the idle smoothing out, and the "check engine" light going off.

I have no problems at all once the engine is warmed up. Once it is warmed up I experience engine start-up and smooth as silk idle on the first crank.

I am not getting any EEC-IV codes.

Any theories out there?

 

Another potential clue for consideration:

In the past, when I turned the ignition key to "on", the dashboard warning lights came on, and I could hear the fuel pump (inside the gas tank) hum very briefly before stopping. I then started the engine normally.

Now, however, if the engine sits for any length of time, when I turn the ignition key to "on", the dashboard warning lights come on, and I can hear the fuel pump hum for several minutes before stopping! This is all before I crank the engine to start it. Does this help in pinpointing the cause of my "check engine" light and cold-starting problems?

Tom Norman

 

Fuel pressure regulator OK?

 

Hi NoMo,

I installed a new fuel filter about 1K miles ago as part of preventive maintence.

I replaced the fuel pressure regulator about 5K miles ago, when the OEM failed, allowing raw fuel into the FI system. I'm not sure if my replacement fuel pressure regulator is still OK, but my next step is to check the fuel pressure on the rail.

Thanks,
Tom Norman

 

Hey again,

1. I checked the pressure regulator and it seems OK. Not leaking fuel through the top like the defective OEM one did.

2. Here are the fuel pressure test results:

a)key on, engine off: About 30 pounds

b)key on, engine running: Pressure gauge wiggled between about 30-32 pounds

When I first started the engine the "check engine" light came on, it idled rough, and black crud came out the tailpipe. After a couple minutes the engine surged (increased idle speed), the "check engine" light went out, the idle smoothed out, and the pressure dropped about 2 pounds, back steady at about 30 pounds

c)key on, engine running, vacuum line at regulator disconnected and plugged: About 40 pounds

Each time that I reconnected the vacuum line to the pressure regulator the pressure dropped down to about 30 pounds. Each time I disconnected and plugged the vacuum line the pressure went up to about 40 pounds

The pressure went to about 40 pounds when I shut the engine off. It has maintained 40 pounds pressure for about twenty minutes with the key off.

After about twenty minutes elapsed, I turned the key to "on" again, but did not crank the engine. I again could hear the fuel pump running in the tank for a little over two minutes before shutting off. The pressure remained unchanged at about 40 pounds while the fuel pump continued to run. I then cranked the engine and it started normally, with no rough idle, and no "check engine" light. While running the pressure wiggled between 30-32 pounds.

3. Several folks have mentioned a fuel pump relay. Where is that little bugger located so I can check/replace it?

Hope these additional clues are helpful,
Tom

 

I ran the codes three times today. Once in the morning, when cold. Once in the afternoon, after the engine had idled about 15 minutes. And once again tonight, after I let it idle for about 30 minutes. Every time, all I got on my cheap Sunpro code scanner was 1-pause-1-pause-1, which, according to the book, no problems were noted by the computer. The engine is idling smoothly as I type this, and has been idling smoothly for about 35 minutes, with no "check engine" light ever coming on.

With the help of my wife, we tracked down the source of the "click" sound that we heard previously when the "check engine" light went off. We heard no "click" sound from this relay when the "check engine" light came on and the fuel pump continued to run for several minutes. The "click" sound, accompanied by the "check engine" light going off was definitely the ignition relay.

Could the ignition relay be a factor? Could sticking contacts inside this relay cause the fuel pump to remain on longer than the 2-3 seconds that it should be on?

Thanks again for ALL the help. This is so frustrating. The beer is on me if we can get this PITA problem fixed.

And the engine is still purring smooth as a kitten...

Tom

 

It's almost like I'm losing pressure in the fuel injection system somewhere. If I let the rig sit a while and turn the key to "on", the fuel pump runs for several minutes and then shuts off, as if it's building up pressure in the system. The engine then starts and runs fine. If the engine has been running a while, and I shut it off, and then immediately re-start it, the fuel pump runs just a couple seconds and shuts off. And then it starts and runs fine.

Crazy huh???????

 

Our 1993 460, on the F53 SuperDuty Stripped Chassis, is very hard to start, but only when cold. It starts and runs fine when it's warmed up. But it takes numerous "cranks" to get it started when the engine is cold. Once it finally starts I get black smoke/crud out the tailpipe, a very rough idle, and a "Check Engine" light. But after about eight minutes or so (to warm the engine?) the black smoke/crud stops, the idle smooths out, and the "Check Engine" light goes off. Then I have no more problems at all until I again have to start the rig cold.

I've had the local Ford garage check for codes, but they came up with a "111", "System Pass".

Any theories out there?

 

Not to sound stupid I'm just not familiar with this engine application, but is it fuel injected or carburated?

 

Not a stupid question at all. It's fuel injected.

 

The newer Fords have an idle air control (IAC) valve that sticks when cold. As a result the engine is hard to start and won't idle when cold, but once the engine warms up they start and run fine. Try this first, depress the gas pedal slightly and try starting the engine. If it fires right up, replace the valve. Aside from the black smoke it sounds like a IAC problem, especially since it isn't setting a code. Two other things come to mind. One is fuel injectors leaking and the second is fuel pressure regulator. This is the procedure to clear a flooded engine, and if problem is from excessive fuel it should start easier. Put the gas pedal to the floor then try starting. If it helps, pull the vacuum hose off of the fuel pressure regulator and see if fuel is on the vacuum side. If you can get a gauge, check the fuel line pressure both running and with the key off. If fuel pressure bleeds off fairly rapidly when the key is turned off and the regulator doesn't have fuel on the vacuum side, I would lean toward an injector problem. Also check for broken or split vacuum hoses.

 

1. I maintain my vehicle meticulously. Here's a LONG list of maintenance items that have been replaced/work done that you'd think would at least partially resolve my cold-start problem. But it STILL runs like crap after a cold-start, and the "Check Engine" light STILL comes on. (NO CODES were read at the Ford dealership. Just "1-1-1", meaning all systems OK.) And it STILL runs great after the engine has warmed up about 8-10 minutes or so.

Here's the long list of maintenance work that has been done:

Brand New/Less Than 50 Miles Ago:

spark plugs
spark plug wires
dist cap/rotor
PCV valve
fuel pump
fuel pump relay
radiator fan relay
idle air control valve
oxygen sensor
EGR valve position sensor
temperature sender
coolant temperature sensor
air charge temperature sensor

Brand New/Replaced Less Than 1,000 Miles Ago:

fuel filter
air filter
breather filter
oil/oil filter

Brand New/Replaced About 10,000 Miles Ago:

thermostat
coolant
starter battery
radiator cap
fuel pressure regulator
EGR valve

Replaced By Ford About 10,000 Miles Ago Under Recall:

remanufactured PCM
idle air control valve
catalytic convertor

2. In short, I give up! I surrender! I have an appointment next Wednesday at the local Ford dealership. Actually my SECOND appointment, because the problem was not fixed the first time.

3. Thank you all for trying to help me, but my frustration level is maxed out. I'm burned out. My next vehicle will be a Dodge. We have three vehicles. Two are Fords and they are both basically crap, nothing but one problem after another. One is a Dodge, the engine has never given me a single problem, and it's still going strong at over 202,000 miles!

 

1. I maintain my vehicle meticulously. Here's a LONG list of maintenance items that have been replaced/work done that you'd think would at least partially resolve my cold-start problem. But it STILL runs like crap after a cold-start, and the "Check Engine" light STILL comes on. (NO CODES were read at the Ford dealership. Just "1-1-1", meaning all systems OK.) And it STILL runs great after the engine has warmed up about 8-10 minutes or so.

Here's the long list of maintenance work that has been done:

Brand New/Less Than 50 Miles Ago:

spark plugs
spark plug wires
dist cap/rotor
PCV valve
fuel pump
fuel pump relay
radiator fan relay
idle air control valve
oxygen sensor
EGR valve position sensor
temperature sender
coolant temperature sensor
air charge temperature sensor

Brand New/Replaced Less Than 1,000 Miles Ago:

fuel filter
air filter
breather filter
oil/oil filter

Brand New/Replaced About 10,000 Miles Ago:

thermostat
coolant
starter battery
radiator cap
fuel pressure regulator
EGR valve

Replaced By Ford About 10,000 Miles Ago Under Recall:

remanufactured PCM
idle air control valve
catalytic convertor

2. In short, I give up! I surrender! I have an appointment next Wednesday at the local Ford dealership. Actually my SECOND appointment, because the problem was not fixed the first time.

3. Thank you all for trying to help me, but my frustration level is maxed out. I'm burned out. My next vehicle will be a Dodge. We have three vehicles. Two are Fords and they are both basically crap, nothing but one problem after another. One is a Dodge, the engine has never given me a single problem, and it's still going strong at over 202,000 miles!

 

Sorry about the lack of responses to your thread. Hopefully you've been getting some private messages from people wanting to help. I missed the last several posts because it was back in Jan when we had our first kid. I have a bad habit of not going more than a day or two back in time on the forums and we were at the hospital for three days. Plus, I was a little pre-occupied when we did return home.

Hate to hear that you're still having the problem. Based on the long list of items you've checked or replaced, I sure would suspect that reman PCM.

Please post back with any findings. It'll surely help someone else to know what caused your problem.

Finally, I bought my '97 with 181,000 miles on it. Now, with over 190,000 miles, it still starts great after weeks of sitting and runs perfectly. Maybe your truck will do the same once this issue is resolved.

 

i had a problem close to what you have and the problem was a bad coolent tempature sesure. it might be sending false signals to the main computer. or the new pcm is bad