Electrical Oddities
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Electrical Oddities
I have a 2002 F150 Supercrew with 40K. Recently I have noticed that even when I remove the key, the heater/AC fan keeps running. Also the windows still go up and down (even after a door has been opened and closed). Twice now I have gone to start it and it has briefly started up and then died. When I crank it, it sounds almost sounds like it is flooded (it doesn't want to catch at all). Waiting a while and trying again seems to correct the problem, but I think it is tied in to the electrical issues. Has anyone run into something like this. Any suggestions?
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From: Panama City, Fl
I had similiar things with my '01 Lariat. I could shut off the truck and have the key in my hand and it would still be running. Talked to the dealer and they lubricated the ignition switch with a special lube they had (not sure of the type). No problems since and that was 25,000 miles ago.
Az Pete
Az Pete
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Same Thing
al_delmonte,
Mine started with the exact same thing, went away, and has now progressed to additional oddities. It's a 2002 F150 SuperCrew with 43k miles.
First occurance:
Turned off vehicle, heater/ac fan turns on full blast. Restarted, turned off auto climate control, turned off vehicle, no fan.
Second occurance:
The problem disappeared for about a month, then returned much worse. This time, started the vehicle, all kinds of wierd electrical problems: wipers work, won't work, work ...
radio lights flickering, all lights on driver door controls flickering, clicking noise coming from around the cabin fuse box. Turned the vehicle off, heater/ac fan went full blast. This time nothing will make it stop ... had to pull the high current fuse under the hood.
Any ideas?
Mine started with the exact same thing, went away, and has now progressed to additional oddities. It's a 2002 F150 SuperCrew with 43k miles.
First occurance:
Turned off vehicle, heater/ac fan turns on full blast. Restarted, turned off auto climate control, turned off vehicle, no fan.
Second occurance:
The problem disappeared for about a month, then returned much worse. This time, started the vehicle, all kinds of wierd electrical problems: wipers work, won't work, work ...
radio lights flickering, all lights on driver door controls flickering, clicking noise coming from around the cabin fuse box. Turned the vehicle off, heater/ac fan went full blast. This time nothing will make it stop ... had to pull the high current fuse under the hood.
Any ideas?
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 12,679
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From: BC, Canada
Hi and welcome to the forum 
The most common cause of the problems that you guys have is water in the fuse box under the dash. It shorts between the terminals which causes power to be supplied to things that normally don't have power when the ignition is turned off. Water can also get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module) which is attached to the back of the fuse box. That can cause problems with the wipers, power windows, 4x4 etc.
Usually water gets in there from a leaking windshield.
The cure is to get the windshield resealed at a glass or body shop and then replace the fuse box. Hopefully the fuse box will cure it. If not you might have to replace the GEM.
Some people get away with just drying out the fuse box but most of the ones I've seen had to be replaced.
The most common cause of the problems that you guys have is water in the fuse box under the dash. It shorts between the terminals which causes power to be supplied to things that normally don't have power when the ignition is turned off. Water can also get into the GEM (Generic Electronic Module) which is attached to the back of the fuse box. That can cause problems with the wipers, power windows, 4x4 etc.
Usually water gets in there from a leaking windshield.
The cure is to get the windshield resealed at a glass or body shop and then replace the fuse box. Hopefully the fuse box will cure it. If not you might have to replace the GEM.
Some people get away with just drying out the fuse box but most of the ones I've seen had to be replaced.
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Follow up
After doing some research on the web, I suspected water under the dash getting into the GEM. Apparently it is not too uncommon with F150s. Last night I removed some of my dash and low and behold, water! I have no idea yet where it is coming from, but I agree the first thing to do is try and prevent any more from getting in. I've only had the truck for 2.5 yrs with no accidents, so I hope the problem isn't due to a seam or sheetmetal rusting through. My guess is the windshield seal, but you never know. I will say this is my first F150 and it's dissapointing I can't let my 4x4 get wet!
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Before this problem surfaced, that is exactly what would happen. However as I said in the original post "the windows still go up and down (even after a door has been opened and closed)" This is definitely not normal.
Today it has been raining more. I couldn't start the truck until I pulled fuse #6. I'm pretty sure it's water in the fuse box.
Today it has been raining more. I couldn't start the truck until I pulled fuse #6. I'm pretty sure it's water in the fuse box.
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al_ and Racerguy, thanks for the info!
I think you guys are on to it. My problems all started and recurred during periods of persistent rain.
On mine, I think the damage has been done. We've been dry here for a week, I can find no signs of water under the dash, and my electrical system is totally trashed.
In the near term, my truck seems destined to look at the back end of tow truck on the way to the shop.
I think you guys are on to it. My problems all started and recurred during periods of persistent rain.
On mine, I think the damage has been done. We've been dry here for a week, I can find no signs of water under the dash, and my electrical system is totally trashed.
In the near term, my truck seems destined to look at the back end of tow truck on the way to the shop.
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I found this post at another site. It might be helpful...........
TSB Article #98-23-1, "Water Intrusion Into The GEM Module-Service Tip"
The GEM is located behind the dash fuse box on our F-150's. There have been a number of areas that allow water to leak into the cab.
The problem with the GEM is that water leaks in through the windshield, cowl, or door molding and the GEM is mounting is such a way that water gets in and has no place to go resulting in corroded contacts.
It controls:
- Wipers/washers.
- Warning chimes.
- Battery saver.
- Illuminated entry and courtesy lamps,
- Driver power window.
- Accessory delay.
- 4-Wheel drive.
The new GEM has a plastic watershield.
My suggestion is to contact a dealer service dept with the above TSB # and see what the cost of service and replacement is.
TSB Article #98-23-1, "Water Intrusion Into The GEM Module-Service Tip"
The GEM is located behind the dash fuse box on our F-150's. There have been a number of areas that allow water to leak into the cab.
The problem with the GEM is that water leaks in through the windshield, cowl, or door molding and the GEM is mounting is such a way that water gets in and has no place to go resulting in corroded contacts.
It controls:
- Wipers/washers.
- Warning chimes.
- Battery saver.
- Illuminated entry and courtesy lamps,
- Driver power window.
- Accessory delay.
- 4-Wheel drive.
The new GEM has a plastic watershield.
My suggestion is to contact a dealer service dept with the above TSB # and see what the cost of service and replacement is.
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Latest update -
A local autoglass company (using pressure testing of the front windshield seal) found and fixed multiple leaks. Cost = $97. It has been pretty dry for the past 2 days and the electrical symptoms are starting to go away.
I still have an appointment at a Ford Dealership tomorrow just to check it out, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the problem has been solved.
A local autoglass company (using pressure testing of the front windshield seal) found and fixed multiple leaks. Cost = $97. It has been pretty dry for the past 2 days and the electrical symptoms are starting to go away.
I still have an appointment at a Ford Dealership tomorrow just to check it out, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the problem has been solved.
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al_,
Hope you get away without the parts replacement ... mine is very dry and still tooo many problems to list. Dealer says I need the fusebox and GEM replaced. Cheapest quote I have is ~$500. Can't even find the parts online to double check ...
They still haven't said for sure where they think the water came from or cost to repair the source of the leak.
Thanks for the windshield info. Needless to say, not too happy with this large a bill to fix what was originally a simple, and possibly known problem on a 2 year old truck!!
Hope you get away without the parts replacement ... mine is very dry and still tooo many problems to list. Dealer says I need the fusebox and GEM replaced. Cheapest quote I have is ~$500. Can't even find the parts online to double check ...
They still haven't said for sure where they think the water came from or cost to repair the source of the leak.
Thanks for the windshield info. Needless to say, not too happy with this large a bill to fix what was originally a simple, and possibly known problem on a 2 year old truck!!
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I feel your pain!
I dropped my truck off this morning. Of course all of the symptoms are gone with the exception that when I put the truck into 4 wheel drive low, the light on the dash doesn't go on. They are telling me the truck is going into 4WD, the GEM is fine and the problem is in the instrument cluster. They want to replace the whole thing for $595. I don't have very much faith in their diagnosis. The whole problem is they never saw all of the major symptoms.
He also wants to replace my brakes and front rotors (at a cost of $445) which is surprising since I had the truck in 4000 miles ago for a check up before my warranty ran out and everything was fine. In addition they want to do a fuel injector treatment ($85). Between all of these bills, (not to mention possibly having to buy a new GEM and fuse box), plus a new set of tires I was planning on buying this winter, I am down so much it's ridiculous.
I will do the brakes and fuel injector cleaning myself and live with the light going on in the dash. Maybe if more problems occur I will bring it back or just trade it in.
Al
I dropped my truck off this morning. Of course all of the symptoms are gone with the exception that when I put the truck into 4 wheel drive low, the light on the dash doesn't go on. They are telling me the truck is going into 4WD, the GEM is fine and the problem is in the instrument cluster. They want to replace the whole thing for $595. I don't have very much faith in their diagnosis. The whole problem is they never saw all of the major symptoms.
He also wants to replace my brakes and front rotors (at a cost of $445) which is surprising since I had the truck in 4000 miles ago for a check up before my warranty ran out and everything was fine. In addition they want to do a fuel injector treatment ($85). Between all of these bills, (not to mention possibly having to buy a new GEM and fuse box), plus a new set of tires I was planning on buying this winter, I am down so much it's ridiculous.
I will do the brakes and fuel injector cleaning myself and live with the light going on in the dash. Maybe if more problems occur I will bring it back or just trade it in.
Al
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From: BC, Canada
I think I'd get a second opinion on the cluster problem unless they tell you that if it doesn't fix it then you won't have to pay for it. I'm not sure of the cost of a fuse box and GEM but they may be something you can replace yourself too. It's not really all that difficult.
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more oddities
I thought I was on to something as I read the posts. I don't believe I have a water issue on my 2001 extended cab. My AC /Heater fan has progressed to not coming on at all on startup, but eventually, I hear a relay click and it comes on. It used to be much more tempermental, it only happened on the hottest of days when I would have liked to have the AC. I can't find anything marked as a fan relay. I'll park it with it working, next morning...nothing.
Sound familiar to anybody?
Sound familiar to anybody?
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 383
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From: California
Stopping the rain
Well I'm glad to read this post. I was getting ready to post about my dads 2001 f 250 extended cab (i think, the one with the suicide doors.) He's been having a problem when it rains the car won't start. It seems like the battery dies which lead us to believe there was a short somewhere that would run and drain the battery. At one point he removed a fuse for the warning chime which seemed to help. Later he told me that when I got out of the car I should make sure the heater and radio were turned off.
At this point I am expecting the culprit to be water entering the fuse box or GEM. He has been having his problem before and after a front windshield replacement. So where should I look or how can I test this. Short of someone actually pouring water on it and me searching for the water coming in? Any ideas or experiences would be appreciated.
Mike
At this point I am expecting the culprit to be water entering the fuse box or GEM. He has been having his problem before and after a front windshield replacement. So where should I look or how can I test this. Short of someone actually pouring water on it and me searching for the water coming in? Any ideas or experiences would be appreciated.
Mike