Question for you all. How many of you have any experiences with this current Dodge transmission? Hear any good or bad about it? I personally havent heard too many complaints on any of the boards I've been to over the last year or so (about as long as this transmission has been around), and Dodge does sell plenty of them. A landscaper who lives next door to me has one 04.5 MY with auto and pulls both his bobcats around from job to job everyday with no complaints so far. Nothing but good to say about it.

Seems most Dodge guys wish they had an additional gear for better gear splits like the torqushift and allison both have, but not too much complaining in the way of failed transmissions on stock engine trucks. Bombing is a different story, but in all fairness I've read plenty on the dieselstop and dieselpage about failing allisons and torqushifts on highly bombed trucks as well.

My guess is that while the 48RE may not be as refined as either of the others, and may not offer the optimum gearing of the torqshift or allison, it's probably every bit as strong or maybe even stronger than these other two.

The Cummins motor is known for superior off idle torque. This is what destroys auto transmissions - lots of torque input with little vehicle movement. All the torque capacity in the world is not going to help when a transmission can't take it at this low RPM/little movement point. GM seems to be finding this out since pumping up the duramax torque at an even lower rpm - allisons are failing now more than ever. I wonder how the high capacity torqushift or allison would do behind the Cummins? Many Cummins/Dodge guys have clamoured for either of these transmissions without thinking about this.

Certainly nothing in either Ford's or GM's light truck auto transmission lineup (prior to the allison and torqueshift) would be even remotely close to being able to handle a stock H.O.Cummins for very long.

With this in mind, I think a 48RE would last behind ANY gasser quite possibly forever, since it apparentely can stay with a Cummins 600.

All this pondering and I'm a stick kinda guy myself

 

The 48RE looks like it will turn out to be a strong transmission, but the TS and Allison both have an advantage with another gear and a lower 1st gear. It would be nice if Dodge would develop a 5 or 6 speed, or maybe use an Allison tranny. It will be interesting to see what the Allison can handle behind the Dmax with more torque. If it doesn't do very well, the Ally might not be a good tranny behind the Cummins.

I, like you, prefer the stick shift and if i were to buy a new Dodge (I wish that I could afford to) it would be a 6-speed. Still, it would be good for Dodge sales if they had an automatic tranny that helped all that Cummins power get to the ground a little better.

 

STOCK Allisons are failing because guys think they can throw 125+ extra RWHP and 300+ extra RWTQ to a stock tranny and have it hold forever. Part of the problem is getting extra HP & TQ from the Duramax is cheap and easy. Beefed up Allisons hold lots of LOTS of power and are in 3/4 ton 4wd EC & CC trucks running in the 11's.

 

I've driven all 3 and the 48re isn't even in the same league. I would rank the Torqshift and Allison equally, the Allison is a lot louder. Dodge really should spend the time to develop a better auto. Word is that Ford and GM are working on a 6-speed as a joint venture. That would really put Dodge behind in the transmission department.

 

I agree with the opinions that both the Torqueshift and Allison transmissions are inherently more useful and more advanced transmissions. Obviously an extra gear allows closer splits, and a lower 1st gear gives better acceleration under load, and also allows an engine with less peak torque like the PSD to actually
put more torque to the real wheels because of the lower ratio. I'm not arguing any of this. I'm talking only of inherent strength in these designs.

Both the Duramax and PSD have been making peak power above what the Cummins does. 520ftlb at 1800RPM for the Duramax and 560-570ftlb at 2000RPM for the 6.0PSD respectively. Only recently has the Duramax been turned up from the factory to have peak torque at an RPM comparable to a Cummins - and it's still less torque at that. The Allison seems to have more complaints associated with it since this time. The Torqueshift has never been subjected to a torque peak at such low RPM that I'm aware of.

What I'm saying is, while the Torqueshift and allison may both have a higher rated higher RPM torque input capacity than the stock 48RE does (not even sure this is true btw) I'm not sure either transmission would fare any better than the 48RE does behind the Cummins - maybe not even as well? If the stock allison is in fact having increased mechanical failure with the uprated torque of the Duramax, then what happens when you add the additional 40 lbft of the stock Cummins?

And since we're on the subject, an interesting point has been made. Apparentely the Allison NEEDS upgrading for what would be considered moderate - high bombing. This is no different than what is required for the 48RE.

I'm not knocking either the Allison or Torqushift, but it may well be that while both of these transmissions offer extra capabilities, neither may actually do as well as the 48RE does of holding up under the Cummins power.

Just pondering the matter - dosent it make sense?

 

The Torqshift doesn't need upgrades for higher output. The problems with the Allison, from what I understand, were on the earlier models. The transmission used to go into "safe mode" when too much additional power was introduced. I don't think that is the case anymore. Saying that the transmissions wouldn't fare well behind the Cummins doesn't make sense. It would help take advantage of the smaller powerband that the Cummins has and make it more competative. As it is right now, the PSD is the lowest rated of the big 3 diesels yet it wins in all the tests. I'm sure the transmission has a lot to do with that. The bottom line is that Dodge has yet to come out with a transmission at least comperable to the Torqshift and Allison. With the current auto, they would have to up the numbers quite a bit more to "tie" the PSD in the tests and real world pulling. By the time Dodge gets their head out of the sand and comes out with a 5-speed Ford and GM will most likely be ready to introduce their 6-speed auto.

 

This is interesting. GM and Ford are working together on 6 speed auto TRUCK transmissions? I had'int heard that. I thought the agreement between them was for the development of FWD 6 speed transaxles for passenger cars. I think I had also heard something along the lines of a possible partnership in development of CVT's, I had heard nothing of common research to develop a 6 speed auto which would eventually replace both the Allison and Torqueshift transmissions.

Would sure end the bickering of who has the better transmission though! Just as both now use the ZF 6 speed manual, both would also use the same 6 speed auto . One interesting point however, though it's off topic, it seems Ford has more faith in the ZF than GM does, since both the ZF and Torqueshift recieve the same torque rating, whereas the Duramax equipt with ZF still remains rated at only 520 lbft - at least 50 lbft less than the allison.

Back on the subject however, I agree with you John - either 5 speed would definately enable owners to better utilise the Cummins torque/RPM powerband BUT - could either hold up to that LOW RPM torque to begin with? I mean even with mods does the PSD make the same kind of torque as the stock Cummins at the same low RPM? Or do the numbers come in higher?

Ahh, the joys of debate

 

Of course it could handle the torque of the Cummins. There are many people running modified PSDs making far more torque than a stock Cummins and they have made no changes to the transmission. All in all, the Cummins doesn't put out that much more torque anyway. It doesn't really matter if it peaks lower when we're talking about transmissions. That simply means that the transmission would shift sooner.

 

Low rpm torque WILL take out a tranny. It has to do with torque multiplication. Ford was scared of this, in my opinion, and thats why peak torque is at 2000 rpm instead of 1400. Where it belongs. The higher the rpm you make the peak torque. The safer it is for your transmission. Low rpm torque assists launching ability and low speed driveability. You can play tricks with the torque converter to make up for an engines low speed inabilities. But only for the auto. The manual owners will suffer. It will have gasoline engine-like response.

Ford had the ability to move peak torque on the 7.3,and also the 6.0, down to 1600 but did not do so until 2003. This combo was only available for a few months but was interesting to me nonetheless. The implication was. It took years for them to figure out just how to beef the tranny to handle the torque multiplication of low rpm torque. Now the dmax makes peak torque at 1600 too. So the PSD has the highest torque peak of the bunch. The dmax employs some fancy footwork to withstand the torque. Such as defueling during shifts and limiting the torque in first and fifth. Dodge has a similar torque limiting program but it only limits maximum allowable input torque. Depending on engine loads from the accesories. In other words. These light duty trannies aint holding max torque as it is.

 

The Duramax was 590ft# @ 1600 rpm when the LLY first came out. After the Cummins 600 was introduced with 600ft# @ 1600rpm the LLY Duramax was bumped up to 605ft# @ 1600 rpm. Then the Cummins was bumped up to 610ft# @ 1600 rpm. The 6.0 Ford started with 560ft# @ 2000 rpm then was bumped up to 570ft# @ 2000 rpm.

 

Oh really? Not according to guys I know with a 6.0/TS and a 100+ rwhp box.

 

Very interesting thread. I can't remember where read it, but a few weeks ago I was reading a thread comparing these transmissions, and the general concensus was that the allison and torqueshift would have problems behind the cummins, not necessarily because it makes peak torque at 1600rpm, but because it makes so much right off idle. I have no doubt that the 48RE is the strongest transmission of the three. I don't think it is the best or certainly not the most advanced, but it is probably the strongest. I would like to see the same basic design continued since it has been redesigned to work very well with the cummins, but I would like to see an additional gear or two added and the ratios optimized for the engine. Once this happens, the cummins will truly be able to shine and Ford and GM will once again need to go back to the drawing boards. By the way, I think the Powerstroke/Torqueshift is the best matched combination available right now.

 

There are plenty of people on FTE here with higher power numbers than that and they are running with stock trannies.

 

Again, the Cummins doesn't put out that much more torque and at it's peak it is less than 100 lb/ft more than the PSD. Plenty of people on here running big chips and methanol, etc. have not made any upgrades to the transmission, so I don't think they are pushing the limits in stock configuration as you suggest. The "mighty" Cummins would work fine behind a Torqshift, certainly better than their current transmission which is in no way stronger than the TS.

 

The guys I know run in the lower hp levels (100rwhp or less) because the tranny shifts like $%*& with the bigger programs. The higher hp boxes/tuners make enough power with the 6.0 to burn up the clutches and converter in the TS. Guys stacking a tuner and a box on the 6.0 can make short work of a TS.