The definition of a real mechanic I think is experience. Alot of us have spent many years working on our own stuff. Asking questions to guys we hang out with or tryin to pick the brain of one of the guys at the repair shop. We know how and understand the theory of why an engine works. But when we hear a strange noise or the engine starts missing, we can (and do) think of a thousand different things that could be causing it. Where as a "real" mechanic has the experience to know what the probable cause is. And we, as back yard mechanics only work on one or two vehicles, and even then only when something goes wrong. So we never have the chance to gain the needed experience to be a real mechanic. Until now. Reading the post on this board, I've gained more experience than I could have if I owned 10 trucks, even if they were chevys( I couldn't resist that). Without a single banged knuckles (except for arguing over what blower motor speed control is) or grease under my nails.
I guess this is my way of sayin thanks to everyone who takes the time to share their experience. And if there are any certified mechanics posting here, let us know. We'll try not to beat up on you too bad when you're wrong. And if you post a problem, take the time to tell us how it was finally resolved. So the next guy will know.

Oh yea, and play nice.....

 

>And if there are any certified mechanics posting here, let us know.
>We'll try not to beat up on you too bad when you're wrong.

There are many certified mechanics who occasionally surf the forum, much to the "backyarders'" delight. As to them being wrong about something, I don't agree with that at all. Troubleshooting via the forum is practically impossible for any mechanic, since:

1. They can't actually experience the problem and hear the noises, so they can only take educated guesses.
2. People do a LOUSY job of providing detail. ("Hey, my engine's makin' a funny noise. Any ideas?")

Nevertheless, they still do manage to do quite a good job of troubleshooting, and are always a great source of (free) advice. I share your feelings on this, and am very grateful for the assistance I've received here over the past 6 months.

BTW, that applies to everyone who takes the time to help a fellow truck owner, not just the mechanics. Thanks to all!

 

> The definition of a real mechanic I think is experience

A real mechanic is someone who can work flat rate, do the job right the first time, not screw anyone, and have enough to send his four kids to college, money for his truck, wife, and retirement.

 

Did ya'll miss the part about "play nice". I believe I thanked "everyone" My exact words were "I guess this is my way of sayin thanks to everyone who takes the time to share their experience". And do I have to put a "lol" or a "ha ha" to let you know a (all be it small) joke when you see one (We'll try not to beat up on you too bad when you're wrong).

The definition of "screwing some one" is relative. A inexperienced mechanic can "honestly" spend 4 hours hunting and pecking around while a experienced one can fix it in a half an hour. I'm not even gonna get into a rate book and how a shop mechanic can do three "1 hr" jobs in 45 minutes. We all know a real mechanic when we see them. Most of them never even finished high school. They just have a feel for it. And lots of experience!

Look at me, this was suppose to be a thank you for all the help you people have givin me. But over analyzing is something that seems to afflict a lot of people, especially my self.

 

>Did ya'll miss the part about "play nice".

Nope, not at all. What above do you feel is not "playing nice"? Because I didn't agree with something you said? It's a discussion forum. I thought you were soliciting other opinions.


>I believe I
>thanked "everyone" My exact words were "I guess this is my
>way of sayin thanks to everyone who takes the time to share
>their experience".

And when I said "I share your feelings on this" that was my way of agreeing with you and reinforcing your point.

>And do I have to put a "lol" or a "ha
>ha" to let you know a (all be it small) joke when you see
>one (We'll try not to beat up on you too bad when you're
>wrong).

Actually, I knew what you meant, but I thought it presented a good opportunity to make the two points that I made. (Again, it's a discussion forum.) And yes, you should ALWAYS use the little smiley faces -- sometimes it's hard to judge whether a person's joking or not.


>Look at me, this was suppose to be a thank you for all the
>help you people have givin me. But over analyzing is
>something that seems to afflict a lot of people, especially
>my self.

I think you're over-reacting a bit, Matt. No harm intended or even evident, at least to me. Just plain old discussion!

 

My apologies. And I would use the smiley faces, only for some reason my browser will no longer let me. I click on em and nothing happens. But thats for a different forum.

 

It could be an interesting conversation if we get into what a real mechanic is and how flat rate works
I've been a licenced mechanic for 21 years now
At a Ford dealer for 15.
Holy cow I'm getting old.
I've worked with licenced mechanics that I wouldn't let fix my wheelbarrow and I know backyarders that i would trust with anything I owned.
And as for mechanics not finishing high school....welllllll
lol
It used to be that "grease monkeys" fixed cars....the guys that weren't smart enough to do anything else with their lives. Now we aren't even called mechanics most of the time anymore.....we are technicians. We apprentice for 4-6 years and then get constant training to keep up with the new technology. Or at least we hope we get constant training. If we don't we get further behind and have a hard time making a living. We work every day with computers, both as tools and in vehicles. We use scopes like electronic technicians use. We use stethoscopes like doctors use. We use borescopes like doctors use. We have to try to decipher manuals that lawyers would have a hard time with. I could go on but I wont
All this and working with chemicals that can easily kill you and getting into spots that contortionists in a circus would have a hard time with.
It's a fun job....or not
And then there is flat rate. I shouldn't start on how our times are being cut back constantly. For example to replace brake pads on almost any newer Ford the warranty time is .1 of an hour or 6 minutes to replace front pads, or 6 minutes to replace rear pads or 6 minutes to replace all the pads. Makes sense eh?
Change head gaskets on a 5.4 in a newer F150? Ford pays 7.9 hours to replace both. It has gotten to the point that we remove the cab off the frame to do the job because it is easier and saves time....we don't lose quite as much time that way. I think that replacing a 4.0L engine in a Ranger pays almost 6 hours. WooHoo
If anyone is interested in more on flat rate and law suits fighting Ford's flat rate times go to www.flatratetech.com and snoop around.
And MickeyP hit the nail on the head about diagnosing problems on here. Quite often when someone posts a question they leave no details as to what they are working on, symptoms, things they have tried etc.
It's hard enough to fix a vehicle we can see and hear never mind trying to fix something that we have little info on. Another thing is that what we see where I work may be totally different than what someone at a dealership somewhere else sees due to different climate, driving conditions etc so if someone answers a question incorrectly it might be the right answer but not for that particular situation.
That's just my $.02 worth

 

I've read about the labor disputes with Ford, and I would be less than honest if I didn't say it makes me a little nervous getting service at a Ford Dealer these days. I do it, but it makes me nervous. Mechanics are being pushed faster and faster, and it seems like, in Fords mind, repair quality is taking a back seat.

I'm trying to be very careful here not to put the problem on the shoulders on the Mechanics. I KNOW that's not where the trouble lies

I was a Mechanic when I was much younger. I started when I was 13, working at a local Exxon station for a family friend that owned it. This was in the early 70's. I was driving the tow-truck when I was 15 (shhhh ). When I was a Senior, I had enough credits that I only had to go to school 1/2 day (that pesky US Government, Math and English courses ), and at noon went to work.

I was about to get my certifications when I decided to join the Navy in 1979. Since then, I've twiddled bits instead of twisting wrenches

My driving goal was always to make the customer happy. That didn't always sit well with the owners where I worked, but I never really changed. I had to change jobs a couple of times because I couldn't stand the 'atmosphere' at a couple places any longer. When you're that young, the business side of things don't always seem as important as how your customer feels about your work

I always like solving the problems that everyone else had given up on. I was, and have always been, really good at diagnosing and figuring out things that defied explanation. My motto was there is ALWAYS an explanation, you just have to go find it

My crowning victory was around 1978 when a customer had a 1972 (I believe it was a 72) Pontiac Grand Prix with a 400 CID and Automatic with a console shifter. This poor guy would go through a shifer cable in less than 1000 miles. Several shops and mechanics had repaired it, which included replacing the cable of course, but NO ONE could ever explain why it kept breaking them, not even the local Pontiac dealers and mechanics.

After I was on the second replacement myself, I decided that car wasn't leaving the shop until I figured it out. I even gave the guy my own car to drive while I was working on it.

It took me a few days, but I finally found the cause!

I pulled the old cable halves out of the shift cable housing, and examined them at the break. Upon close examination, I noted that it looked like the cables had been burnt through, not worn through. I checked for close routing to exhaust, etc... but there was none and there was no apparant outside damage to the casing.

Then it dawned on me. Electrical Arcing!

I started examining the major wiring on the car, and I finally found the problem. There was a grounding strap that was supposed to go from the right-side (if I remember correctly) valve cover and the firewall. It was disconnected. He had the valve cover gaskets replaced a few years earlier, and the mechanic failed to see the cable he disconnected dangling down behind some other stuff.

I re-connected the ground cable and he never had another problem with the shifter cable.

Apparantly with that important ground carried much of the current for the electrical system, and since it was disconnected, the SHIFTER CABLE and the cable housing had taken up the job. The path of least resistance was the shifter cable assy. When he shifted, this caused arcing at the contact between the outer housing and the cable, and after a while it burned through the cable.

I remember we reported it to GM, and years later the owner of that shop told me I got a mention in a GM repair magazine/article somewhere along the line for that repair, but I never got to see it

In my experience with car electrical systems, NOTHING can be more troublesome than a bad ground!

It's kind of funny, after 11 years of intense electronics/computer training in the Navy, and another 12 years of outside world experience, I would have thought of that in about 2 microseconds if I had the knowledge I have now way back then

Larry

 

Oh, my favorite customer

Former Secretary of the Navy Middendorf. He had a late 70's Olds with the 'Diesel' in it.

Wonderful man, wonderful tipper. Miserable car

Larry

 

> I've worked with licenced mechanics that I wouldn't let fix
>my wheelbarrow and I know backyarders that i would trust
>with anything I owned.

Couldn't agree with this more. Being in the computer/electronics repair/support biz for 20+ years, I too have seen this lack of integrity by fellow techs. Like Larry, I've always "given a crap" and treated the stuff I fixed like it was mine. But some folks are just puttin' in their 40 hours and going home. No pride; what a shame. :-X23

>Now we aren't even called mechanics most of the time
>anymore.....we are technicians. We apprentice for 4-6 years
>and then get constant training to keep up with the new
>technology. Or at least we hope we get constant training. If
>we don't we get further behind and have a hard time making a
>living. We work every day with computers, both as tools and
>in vehicles. We use scopes like electronic technicians use.
>We use stethoscopes like doctors use. We use borescopes like
>doctors use. We have to try to decipher manuals that lawyers
>would have a hard time with. I could go on but I wont
> All this and working with chemicals that can easily kill
>you and getting into spots that contortionists in a circus
>would have a hard time with.
>It's a fun job....or not


Also too true. However, here in the land of the Nor'easter (like every two days, it seems), recent automotive tech-school grads at the top of their class are in such demand that high-end dealerships (Lexus, BMW, etc.) are paying up to $100k to start! I thought about changing careers when I heard that, but it's still tough work to be doing every day. My hat's off to you guys.

 

> I think that replacing a 4.0L engine in a Ranger pays almost 6 hours

Last time I worked at a Ford dealer back in 2000, they were paying a whole 12.x hours to replace a 3.8L in a Taurus. Watching a real (master) mechanic bust ... knuckles ... to break even on this made me realize how much I liked getting paid by the hour.

I was more than happy to keep to "technician" work reprogramming keys and Taurus CPUs or replacing bolts in trailer hitches. It is almost impossible to be a real mechanic anymore.

When I worked at Ryder, the "real" mechanics to me were the ones that could take apart and put back together a diesel engine or transmission without a book.

I would say another thing that separates a real mechanic from a tech is a real mechanic rarely needs to borrow a tool and everything he uses is air powered and has a swivel.

 

i guess it has a lot to do with experience. not so much being a real mechanic or backyard mechanic. if you work at a ford dealer and have replaced 10 or more transmissions on a taurus in the past year, you noturally should do it faster and better than a mechanic who works at another shop who has never replaced one. for instance i used to work as a mechanic at a pontiac dealer. i learned on fixing grand am's, grand prixs, firebirds etc. i was trained on the gm obd 2's on gm's systems. now if i went to a ford or dodge dealer it would be a whole new ballgame to me to have to diagnose an intense drivability problem on a explorer or powerstroke. anyone could guess and change parts. its how effient you are for yourself, the business, and the customer. there were certified techs were i worked and some of them just guessed on what the problem is and begun changing unnecessary parts at pontiac or the customers expense. i dont think there is a such thing as a real mechanic. just good ones, bad ones, and inexperienced ones.