Desktop Dyno cam comparison please
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From: Crownsville, MD
Desktop Dyno cam comparison please
Rusty70f100 ran this build with the Crane 941 for me once before but I would like it aqain with a comparison to the Crower 16241, please.
Here are the engine specs.
COAE-D heads with CJ valves, pocket ported and exhaust ports cleaned up (I have been told they will flow slightly less that the Ebrocks, so you could just use those numbers). Chamber size is about 60-62 cc with these heads, but I don't think that matters for DD.
390 with 3.78 stroke, 4.08 bore
Compression will be 9.7:1, quench will be .052"
F427 intake manifold (use RPM if not listed)
770 cfm Holley Street Avenger
Adjustable rocker assembly, roller chain, etc
Thorley headers (not sure on the pipe diameter, use whatever is standard) and 2.5" dual exhaust and 40 series Flowmasters out the back
Camshaft #1
Crane 343941
Adv duration 272 284
Duration @ .05 216 228
Lift .533 .563
LSA 110
Intake centerline 106
Camshaft #2
Crower 16241
Adv Duration 280 286
Duration @ .05 222 228
Lift .538 .552
LSA 112
Intake centerline 108
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Here are the engine specs.
COAE-D heads with CJ valves, pocket ported and exhaust ports cleaned up (I have been told they will flow slightly less that the Ebrocks, so you could just use those numbers). Chamber size is about 60-62 cc with these heads, but I don't think that matters for DD.
390 with 3.78 stroke, 4.08 bore
Compression will be 9.7:1, quench will be .052"
F427 intake manifold (use RPM if not listed)
770 cfm Holley Street Avenger
Adjustable rocker assembly, roller chain, etc
Thorley headers (not sure on the pipe diameter, use whatever is standard) and 2.5" dual exhaust and 40 series Flowmasters out the back
Camshaft #1
Crane 343941
Adv duration 272 284
Duration @ .05 216 228
Lift .533 .563
LSA 110
Intake centerline 106
Camshaft #2
Crower 16241
Adv Duration 280 286
Duration @ .05 222 228
Lift .538 .552
LSA 112
Intake centerline 108
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: Crownsville, MD
I guess you already have all the timing events for the Crane 941 since you plan on using it and have dynoed it before. For the Crower cam the intake and exhaust closing events are as follows:
Tappet @.05
intake open 3 BTDC
intake closed 39 ABDC
exhaust open 50 BBDC
exhaust closed 2 ATDC
for the Adv duration (Crower does not give the tappet height for this, I assume it is .006 or .004)
intake open 32 BTDC
intake closed 68 ABDC
exhaust open 79 BBDC
exhaust closed 27 ATDC
Tappet @.05
intake open 3 BTDC
intake closed 39 ABDC
exhaust open 50 BBDC
exhaust closed 2 ATDC
for the Adv duration (Crower does not give the tappet height for this, I assume it is .006 or .004)
intake open 32 BTDC
intake closed 68 ABDC
exhaust open 79 BBDC
exhaust closed 27 ATDC
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Post Fiend
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From: "Islander"
dyno readings & desk top dyno choice
rusty70f100, i don't want to steal this thread but i'm looking for a good desk top dyno, do you have a good recommendation on who or what to buy? The 410 has 300K.Here's what i want to build; 427 block, 4.25 crank, iron MR heads, 941 cam, 9.3-9.5 CR, F-427 intake,670 or 770 carb, Thorley headers, 2 1/2" to a X to Edelbrock RPM's to 3" to 4 1/2" out the rear. Can i bug you on torque and hp readings please? This will be run on a 68 CS, C-6 w/ low stall, 3.54 rear on 12 x 33 16.5 tire. Thanks rusty, Carl........o&o>.........
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
I'll assume that you're using one of the new blocks with the 4.250" finished bore. So you wind up with 482.3ci.
I dont have flow files for iron MR heads. They do have larger ports than regular FE heads, as well as larger valves. I'll use Edelbrock RPM head flow numbers for now, for lack of anything more precise.
I'm coming up with 410hp @ 5000rpm, and 509ft-lbs from 2500 to 3500rpm. The torque curve is FLAT from 2000 up to 4000, where it starts to drop off.
I'd really suggest a little more compression, up around 10, and a bigger cam, like the 521. This would really wake it up. With that many cubic inches, you really dont want a cam like the 941. It works good in 390's, but you want something bigger for that monstrosity.
I dont have flow files for iron MR heads. They do have larger ports than regular FE heads, as well as larger valves. I'll use Edelbrock RPM head flow numbers for now, for lack of anything more precise.
I'm coming up with 410hp @ 5000rpm, and 509ft-lbs from 2500 to 3500rpm. The torque curve is FLAT from 2000 up to 4000, where it starts to drop off.
I'd really suggest a little more compression, up around 10, and a bigger cam, like the 521. This would really wake it up. With that many cubic inches, you really dont want a cam like the 941. It works good in 390's, but you want something bigger for that monstrosity.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: "Islander"
TQ & HP numbers, what Desk Top Dyno to buy?
Rusty thanks for running the numbers, i had a feeling the big motor would eat that cam. I Want to get some gas mileage besides performance. The old 410 with 64 LR heads, old 270/290 CJ cam and 9.1 cr seems boring now. Question Rusty, what would be a good desk top dyno system to buy? I know it's been hammered on this forum before but i have A.D.D. Thanks again, Carl....o&o>....
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
A.D.D. ... I could write a book on that, and how it's a lack of discipline which turns into an excuse later in life, but I'll save that for later.
If you want something cheap DD2k may be the ticket. DD2k3 produces more accurate results, and there's one thats called Dynosim that's supposed to be really good but costs more money.
If you want something cheap DD2k may be the ticket. DD2k3 produces more accurate results, and there's one thats called Dynosim that's supposed to be really good but costs more money.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: Crownsville, MD
Rusty70f100,
thanks a ton for running that simulation. Now if I can ask one more small favor. Any chance you could post a graph of the Crane 941 vs. the Crower 16241? If not, how about just giving me a brief description of how the two torque curves compare.
Thanks,
Bob
thanks a ton for running that simulation. Now if I can ask one more small favor. Any chance you could post a graph of the Crane 941 vs. the Crower 16241? If not, how about just giving me a brief description of how the two torque curves compare.
Thanks,
Bob
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
The crower cam is a hair lower on torque and hp everywhere. The difference is like 5hp and ft-lbs. Other than that, the curves are nearly identical. The crane does have 14 more ft-lbs @ 2000rpm though.
I'd use the 941.
I'd use the 941.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
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From: Crownsville, MD
That cinches it. I don't understand why the Crower is inferior, but the Crane 941 is what is going in my engine.
I figured that since my exhaust ports in my heads are cleaned up and flowing pretty good I might benefit from a cam with a bit more intake duration. In other words, less of a dual pattern. I also thought a wider LSA would give me more bottom end torque. Obviously the only way to really know would be to build the engine and dyno both cams, but if DD shows no advantage to the Crower, I am just going to use the 941 since everyone else using it seems pretty happy with it.
Thanks again for running that Rusty. I owe you a beer.
I figured that since my exhaust ports in my heads are cleaned up and flowing pretty good I might benefit from a cam with a bit more intake duration. In other words, less of a dual pattern. I also thought a wider LSA would give me more bottom end torque. Obviously the only way to really know would be to build the engine and dyno both cams, but if DD shows no advantage to the Crower, I am just going to use the 941 since everyone else using it seems pretty happy with it.
Thanks again for running that Rusty. I owe you a beer.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Crownsville, MD
If so, I will volunteer to drink the warm one and spring for a fresh cold one for you. Actually I brew my own and have a co2 keg system with a tap on the back of my kitchen sink for serving my homebrew. It is real easy to just sit there and keep drafting 'em one after the other. Of course nothing gets done if I take advantage of that too often. 
Post Fiend
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Posts: 6,658
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From: "Islander"
Do Germans drink Beer?
76F150, my wife controls the throttle opening position of the tapper lever at times. I brew in 5 gallon batches and hold the brew in those stainless steel tanks made by Cornelius. I have a Cornelius refrigerator thats made to hold one 5 gallon tank. I'll start opening the 5 oz sample bottles before i tap the 5 gallon tank, ad Co2 as needed. German Weat Bier, or a close copy of Killian's Irish Red are my favorite, you can get your tongue twisted after two 16 oz glasses. Note you must keep 4 mugs waiting in the freezer at all times.
Carl........o&o>........
Carl........o&o>........