Timing advance/total question(s) ??
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
Ok, you should have moved the dial until it went back to 10 degrees, not zero. Remember 10 is your starting point but you dialed back past 10 to zero. No problem, we'll just add that 10 back in so in other words you should have dialed back and read 20. Then add 10 initial for a total advance of 30 degrees at 3K. Does this make sense?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 14
From: Colorado
BB, ok got it. So, it's 30 instead of 40. SO, now that we have decided I have 30deg, how do I get to 38deg?
The little book that came with the timing light says to go back to zero... err.
The little book that came with the timing light says to go back to zero... err.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
That's just another way of doing it. If you go back to zero, then you don't have to add in the initial. So your way (and the book's too) will give the same end result without having to worry about adding in the initial setting. I've always done it the other way, don't know why now that I think about it.
To get more advance earlier, you need to change the stronger spring in the mechanical advance. Crane sells a curve kit with springs, you use their weaker spring in place of the stock stronger stock spring and leave the other stock weaker spring in there.
The only thing we don't know is what the advance limit in the dizzy is. When you take off the breaker plate and look at the advance cam we will finally know.
To get more advance earlier, you need to change the stronger spring in the mechanical advance. Crane sells a curve kit with springs, you use their weaker spring in place of the stock stronger stock spring and leave the other stock weaker spring in there.
The only thing we don't know is what the advance limit in the dizzy is. When you take off the breaker plate and look at the advance cam we will finally know.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
You do not know if you were at the stop when you checked. You were running your engine at 3k, but what if the mechanical advance did not fully extend until 4k?
You need to watch the timing change as you accelerate - visually check it at 1500 RPM, 2K, 2500 RPM - and make sure the maximum advance is about 2500 and it does not change as you speed up to 3k. If it continues to change as you go past 2500, then change to softer springs. Once you know the max advance is happening around 2500, you can worry about how many degrees that is.
I would totally ignore the vacuum advance at this time - it is a separate system and does not operate at all when at wot. Once I have the initial timing set and the mechnical advance properly curved, then I would adjust the vacuum advance such that the engine did not ping in normal driving.
You need to watch the timing change as you accelerate - visually check it at 1500 RPM, 2K, 2500 RPM - and make sure the maximum advance is about 2500 and it does not change as you speed up to 3k. If it continues to change as you go past 2500, then change to softer springs. Once you know the max advance is happening around 2500, you can worry about how many degrees that is.
I would totally ignore the vacuum advance at this time - it is a separate system and does not operate at all when at wot. Once I have the initial timing set and the mechnical advance properly curved, then I would adjust the vacuum advance such that the engine did not ping in normal driving.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 14
From: Colorado
Once I got to around 2500rpm it stopped going on the dial. I revved more to about 3000, then more to around 3500, and it still didn't move past 30. It's tricky doing it by yourself. I had to hold the throttle with my right hand, press the trigger against the horn and shine towards the hblancer and move the dial with my fingers.
So with that said, what's next guys? Taking my dizzy apart and finding out what BB is talking about? When you take off the breaker plate and look at the advance cam we will finally know.
?
So with that said, what's next guys? Taking my dizzy apart and finding out what BB is talking about? When you take off the breaker plate and look at the advance cam we will finally know.
?
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,231
Likes: 1
From: Near Fresno, California
Most V8 distributors contain an internal advance mechanism consisting of two each of weights, springs, and slotted 'reluctor' arms. There is also a stop tab for the arms. On Fords this assembly can only be seen by removing the cap, rotor, and breaker plate; we'll get to removal a bit later. As the distributor shaft spins with increasing rpms, the centrifugal force acts on the weights, which begin to force outwards against the springs. This movement rotates the shaft and thus advances the timing. The slotted arm controls how much the weights can move the assembly, and the springs control how fast the assembly reaches that limit. The reluctor arm on a Ford has two slotted sides, only one side contributes to the timing, the arm can be flipped around if more advance is needed (see pictures.) On Fords each side is stamped with a number, usually 10L and 13L; or some have 15L and 18L. These numbers refer to 1/2 of the total degrees of timing that will be obtained when using that arm. So for example a 15L arm would contribute 15 x 2= 30 degrees of timing when full against the stop
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
Thanks WillyB, I guess I'm not explaining it well!
Ceetwarrior, you say the advance stopped advancing at 2500rpm? That's very low for stock or else someone has already played with it.
With that knowledge, I'd say you are running off the 10L slot which gives you 20 degrees mechanical advance. Add 10 degrees of initial to that and you have a total advance of 30 degrees at 2500rpm.
It would be nice to look inside the dizzy and see if that's true or if something funky is going on.
Ceetwarrior, you say the advance stopped advancing at 2500rpm? That's very low for stock or else someone has already played with it.
With that knowledge, I'd say you are running off the 10L slot which gives you 20 degrees mechanical advance. Add 10 degrees of initial to that and you have a total advance of 30 degrees at 2500rpm.
It would be nice to look inside the dizzy and see if that's true or if something funky is going on.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
From: Fort Rucker, AL
I have the Pertronix Ignitor in my dizzy. Would I check the advance the same way, springs and all?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 14
From: Colorado
Wow, good info WillyB, cleared a lot up. BB, I could be wrong, but it didn't move after 2500-3000, now, I might not have been actually at those rpms because I couldn't see my tach. I'll have someone push the gas pedal later tonight when I play with it some more. What do I need to do to get the breaker plate off my dizzy? Take off the cap, rotor... eh
WillyB, you didn't attach any pics?
WillyB, you didn't attach any pics?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 14
From: Colorado
Wow, good info WillyB, cleared a lot up. BB, I could be wrong, but it didn't move after 2500-3000, now, I might not have been actually at those rpms because I couldn't see my tach. I'll have someone push the gas pedal later tonight when I play with it some more. What do I need to do to get the breaker plate off my dizzy? Take off the cap, rotor... sounds easy eh
WillyB, you didn't attach any pics?
WillyB, you didn't attach any pics?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
Likes: 8
From: Brea CA
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,328
Likes: 14
From: Colorado
Ok, thanks guys! I got your email too WillyB, but looks like BB beat ya to it. I'll take it apart and see what number I have. I'll also get my dad to help me do it, so he can push the pedal for me. I'll let ya guys know asap!