I'm trying to find someone who can give me a definite answer about gauges. Are there any out there, including from Ford, that will simply replace the existing instrument cluster. These gauges are a joke they are more of an indicator of a bad condition. By the time the temp gauges move, it's already too hot. I don't know the exact parameters of each gauge but I do know that when idling the trans. temps and water temps should be cooler and the oil pressure should drop a little and then when pulling at full throttle up a long 6% grade the temps should rise and oil pressure should be higher at 2500 RPM's. I don't want more gauges in the way of my view at the pillar or to have to have duplicate gauges to get the job done right. I just can't understand how a 45,000 dollar machine can be operated without knowing the exact internal temps. Also, how about boost and EGT and why does Ford think that we don't need to know our battery condition anymore?? Bottom line: is there a replacement instrument cluster in existence that won't cost more than my truck did? Thanks to anyone who can provide a real answer because my Ford dealer cannot. Oh by the way, 2004 F-250 6.0L PSD, 5 speed Torqshift FX4 Lariat Crew Cab.

 

The 05's have a boost gauge.

But I have a question for you. If the factory engine temp. and oil pressure gauges aren't very good, what makes you think a factory boost or EGT gauge would be very good?

 

Well, SVT makes pretty decent gauges for the new GT and T-birds, so why can't they do the same for our high performance toys?

 

Nothing available thats just a drop in. Would be difficult to correct whats there as well since they are just idiot lights. Thats been everyones argument and why most of us have gone to aftermarket gauges. There are alot of ways to go from simple analog gauges on a pillar, dash, or overhead mounts, to digital readouts that take up very little room on the dash, these are from Edge, BD and others.

 

Don't expect much movement from the OEM oil pressure guage, the sensor's output is ether off or on. That's right, the guage will either read somewhere in midscale if there's oil pressure or down at nothing, if there's less that the sensor's make point. Nothing in between! It could have been an idiot light and had the same results.

 

OK guys, so does this mean that there is no way to have more precise gauges using the factory computer? The computer has very exact information at all times because it reads boost, egt, oil pressure, etc and monitors them all VERY closely to properly tune and operate, right.??? I am not speaking from knowledge, I am simply searching for an answer other than having 2 oil press. gauges, 2 water temp. gauges, 2 trans. temp. gauges and 1 of everything else I need. I don't run mine wide open all day every day yet, so I'm in no hurry to install something right now. Has anyone heard of a company that could take out the factory instrument panel, remove the original gauges and install good ones (analog or digital) in their place using original connections or adding new wires, tubes, adapters????? As you can probably tell, I am pretty adamant about not having duplicate gauges and would do alot to prevent it. Please help or pass on to someone who can if you read this. Thanks, Mat

 

me1mckee, sure, there is a way to do it, but nothing factory. Its not a simple procedure to tap into idiot lights, the sensors aren't the same. You can go the route of something like Dakota Digital, remove your gauge cluster and put one of theirs in its place. It won't be cheap, nor easy. If you look at the manifold or down pipe, you won't see any thermocouplers, nor temp sending units for monitoring EGTs. Its not necessary for a "stock" truck. There isn't a tap for boost either. What I'm trying to say is that Ford doesn't consider it necessary, why add expenses to building a truck. Thats why most of us go the aftermarker route and find something we like to fit into our interiors so we can monitor our trucks.
You can use the factory gauges, but when they go red, you are pretty much done.
Even the new 05's only have a boost gauge, nothing else.

 

One other thing. If you want something simple, get a cluster mount, it goes right below the current gauge cluster, looks stock and add 2 gauges, boost and EGT. Probably as close as you are going to get.
Also, the computer has not output for gauges, its all by taps into the truck, manifold, boost tube, etc.

 

One other thing. If you want something simple, get a cluster mount, it goes right below the current gauge cluster, looks stock and add 2 gauges, boost and EGT. Probably as close as you are going to get.
Also, the computer has no output for gauges, its all by taps into the truck, manifold, boost tube, etc.

 

Would anyone reading this happen to know a contact at FMC's engineering that would be able to answer how they can ignore such a huge demand for proper gauging? I am searching for something that can lead me to a reason for not having decent gauges for all this money, especially when the competition does (Chev.'s have analog temp and press. gauges with numbers that coincide with actual readings.) Not that I would buy one, I just bought my second new Ford so don't yell at me. I'm just wondering how much it could really cost to do this at the manufacturing level and what would be the difference between an MSRP of 45,000 and even 46,000 because there's no way it could cost more than a grand per truck to install these gauges when the trucks are built not replacing them. With all of the Ford truck owners out there who have spent a fortune on aftermarket gauges, has FMC really ignored us all????? This is just my first step in making my truck exactly perfect and I am searching for a way to prevent it from happening with my next truck also. Maybe if we all could work together to convince FMC to install some real gauges in the next upgrade we could have a better truck all the way around and it has started now with the advent of a boost gauge in the '05's. Any replies with good info. will be much appreciated, also thanks for the company name sy5adm1n. I will be looking them up. Only one more question.... i understand that FMC doesn't think we need EGT or Boost in our '04's and below, but the computer does read exact coolant/ trans. temps. and oil press., right???? So, the gauges in the dash could run from those inputs to the computer to a better gauge replacing existing and then just add in the EGT, Boost, Diff. temp., Volts at the pillar..... does that sound possible to anyone?? OK, thanks for all of your help, Mat.

 

just a side note. diesel trucks do monitor boost. its called the map sensor. I am an electrical engineer and I'm working on designing a sending unit right now that will tap the existing ford sensors for data. I'm trying to get it real custom so that any gauge can be hooked to the output. one of my first steps is to put a REAL oil pressure gauge in using the existing in dash unit. One that actually moves up and down as the pressure changes. it is the easiest to change as it goes through no sending unit. just one wire from the sensor to the gauge with a resistor on the back of the gauges to make the meter sit in the middle of the range.

 

It was my impression that all the gauges in the cluster are driven from the PCM via the "CAN" bus. I also wanted to modify these gauge operations, but in my case, I wanted to get the engine and transmission temperature gauges to be more linear. Short of trying to intercept the CAN commands to the gauges, I figured it might be possible to disconnect the actual analog gauge movement wiring from the CAN ciruitry and drive the analog gauge movement directly from interface logic of my (or yours!) design from the existing factory sensors. In the case of the oil pressure, a real pressure sendor will need to be installed instead of the on/off switch sender that is in place from the factory.

Has anyone had the instrument cluster apart to find out if the analog gauge movement wires can be gotten to somehow?

A resister equal to the internal movement resistence will probably need to be hooked up to the CAN part of the gauge interface, so the PCM will still see the standard gauge resistence, otherwise some internal diagnostics may fail when the "open circuit" is detected from the gauge being "gone" from the CAN interface.

 

I have a Murphy Powerview 100 that can read SAE J1930 from the CAN system. Does anyone know what SAE protocall the F250 uses, or how to connect to the data wires? Philip

 

Thank you for letting me know that there are alternatives out there. It's good to hear that someone is really moving toward an answer other than just go buy add- on gauges to duplicate what is already there. I also know that the 6.0 monitors engine oil temp and even barometric pressure (that's how the computer determines how long to energize the glow plugs), so there has to be a way to tap into those sensors also. Please keep this thread going with updates on your progress and any new input from anyone who has ideas or other info. from Ford or aftermarket companies is great to hear.
Thanks for all the great input,
Mat

 

I found some info. about the stock oil pressure gauge that may prove useful.
Go to this page to read up http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_html/html/TOC.html
Follow the link to EOP (Engine Oil Pressure) where it says "Hint, get a real oil pressure gauge. If anyone has installed something other than a switch, like a variable output sensor that sends that variable signal to the gauge and has had any luck with it, please let me know where to get that sensor. I would like to use the stock gauge and since the oil pressure reading from that switch does not go to the PCM then it won't hurt to take it out and add something else. If anyone has any ideas, I would like to hear them. Thanks, Mat