What engine is this?
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From: Lewisville, NC
What engine is this?
Here's the rear of the block on my '53 F100. It obviously a V8 239 flathead with a Holley two barell and has Mercury heads (ECM). The block reads 21 and 57P4 near the bell housing. Block color was probably green. What kind of engine is it? Can I measure the stroke without pulling the heads? The plugs seem to be offset from the bores, a rod won't go in. Please check my gallery also, I'll try to post some pics there.
-Scott
-Scott
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Michigan
Not sure, but I don't think the early Ford blocks had any numbers that identify the engine type. My original 55 has casting codes but nothing that tells engine type, the VIN does. On 53's the 4th digit in the VIN for a 239 flathead is "R". There was only one flathead V8 in 53 F100's.
Fred K.
Fred K.
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From: NM
To confirm it's a Merc 4" stroke, you'll have to pull the oil pan or a head. That's the only sure-fire way to measure stroke. If you can pull the pan without lifting the engine/removing suspension (I did on my '52), that's the easier job, and you won't have to deal with re-sealing a head gasket and bolts. With the right tool, you can also measure the bore fairly accurately. You can check bearings, oil pump, etc. All in all, pretty worthwhile on several counts.
I suspected I had a Merc in mine, because it has the Merc-style oil pan vs. the removable-sump truck pan. It has car-style narrow belts, too. But I dropped the pan and it was "just" a clean, healthy 239.
-- Ross
I suspected I had a Merc in mine, because it has the Merc-style oil pan vs. the removable-sump truck pan. It has car-style narrow belts, too. But I dropped the pan and it was "just" a clean, healthy 239.
-- Ross
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From: Lewisville, NC
What is the Merc-style pan? It does have narrow belts. I know the engine has been pulled out "recently" (within the past twenty years) because the bolts around the engine/bell housing were cleaner than everythng else.
I'm hoping for the Merc. Besides the longer stroke and resulting increased displacement and horsepower, is there anything else I should know? Are all the non-crank related parts interchangeable?
I've got the drive train on a bare frame right now with no front suspension so I could pull the pan, but resealing the pan with it's curved rear lip seems tricky. Any bullet-proof methods to share for removing and resealing the pan?
-Scott
I'm hoping for the Merc. Besides the longer stroke and resulting increased displacement and horsepower, is there anything else I should know? Are all the non-crank related parts interchangeable?
I've got the drive train on a bare frame right now with no front suspension so I could pull the pan, but resealing the pan with it's curved rear lip seems tricky. Any bullet-proof methods to share for removing and resealing the pan?
-Scott
Last edited by Narwhal; Sep 13, 2004 at 07:02 AM.
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From: NM
Later-model Mercs had a stamped metal bellhousing and the oil pan had three studs sticking down from the rear sump, to attach a brace that goes back to the bell. All parts interchange as far as I know, but obviously only when done correctly (you can't throw a Merc 4" crank in with Ford con rods, etc).
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From: Lewisville, NC
Definitely a cast bell housing on mine. No studs sticking down or braces from the sump to the housing.
The intake manifold and heads are Mercury. I can see if they cracked a head they might switch both to Mercurys - but the intake manifold too?
-Scott
The intake manifold and heads are Mercury. I can see if they cracked a head they might switch both to Mercurys - but the intake manifold too?
-Scott
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From: Kalispell, MT
The intake has the 4 bolt carb base?
I'd venture to guess someone transplanted a '52-3 Merc engine in the truck using the truck's bell housing and oil pan. Everything swaps if you keep certain pieces together. The numbers you indicate don't mean anything as far as we know except to the original caster of the block. Look for an assembly date on the intake flat, passenger side, rear. You can see a stamped series of 'number, letter, number' If you need help deciphering, I'll post a web site that should help.
The EAC heads are 52/53 merc car heads. The engine if merc is 255 ci.
Oh, and Ross needs a second cup of coffee
Merc cranks and Ford con rods go together just fine - he meant it's the Ford pistons you want to stay away from. Late model con rods are all the same.
I'd venture to guess someone transplanted a '52-3 Merc engine in the truck using the truck's bell housing and oil pan. Everything swaps if you keep certain pieces together. The numbers you indicate don't mean anything as far as we know except to the original caster of the block. Look for an assembly date on the intake flat, passenger side, rear. You can see a stamped series of 'number, letter, number' If you need help deciphering, I'll post a web site that should help.
The EAC heads are 52/53 merc car heads. The engine if merc is 255 ci.
Oh, and Ross needs a second cup of coffee
Merc cranks and Ford con rods go together just fine - he meant it's the Ford pistons you want to stay away from. Late model con rods are all the same.
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From: Lewisville, NC
The carb base is 3 bolt, using a Holley 94. I'm not sure what's been transplanted and what is stock. Certainly the factory didn't put on the Merc heads and intake manifold. This is a Ford truck that originally shipped with a V8 239 according to the plate in the glove box. Given the amount of rust and the paint partially covering the plate, I'd guess the plate and cab are original.
Right now I'm looking at dropping the pan, but am a little hinky about getting it all sealed back up oil tight.
-Scott
Right now I'm looking at dropping the pan, but am a little hinky about getting it all sealed back up oil tight.
-Scott
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From: Kalispell, MT
The merc intake uses a 4 bolt carb. Fords used the 3 bolt. Because all these parts interchange you can't be sure of what you have without taking it apart. By this time it is highly unusual to find the original engine that came from the factory in any truck.
It could be that someone just put merc heads on the truck engine. Or they might have dropped in a merc engine and used most of the truck accessories. I found that very situation in a 46 ford farm truck that donated it's merc engine for my pickup. Only the block and heads had been swapped and used the ford intake, carb, oil canister, etc.
You should be able to drop the pan and get things sealed back up. You could always clean the pan lips and smear just a little RTV silicone on the surfaces. Don't use much.
The flip side of all this is: The difference in cubes isn't all that much and you probably won't notice a 'seat-of-the-pants' difference. If you have a good tight engine, just run it.....unless you just have to know.......
It could be that someone just put merc heads on the truck engine. Or they might have dropped in a merc engine and used most of the truck accessories. I found that very situation in a 46 ford farm truck that donated it's merc engine for my pickup. Only the block and heads had been swapped and used the ford intake, carb, oil canister, etc.
You should be able to drop the pan and get things sealed back up. You could always clean the pan lips and smear just a little RTV silicone on the surfaces. Don't use much.
The flip side of all this is: The difference in cubes isn't all that much and you probably won't notice a 'seat-of-the-pants' difference. If you have a good tight engine, just run it.....unless you just have to know.......
Last edited by mtflat; Sep 14, 2004 at 09:07 AM.
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From: Lewisville, NC
I've heard that the Merc heads on a Ford block give lower compression and power, that's why I'm interested. The intake is blue to match the heads but is 3 bolt - maybe owner painted?
With replacement Ford heads relatively inexpensive, it seems reasonable to investigate.
-Scott
With replacement Ford heads relatively inexpensive, it seems reasonable to investigate.
-Scott
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From: NM
The difference in compression ratio between the Merc and Ford heads may be worth the trouble; essentially, the Merc heads have a bigger volume to give the same compression ratio with more c.i.'s. So they would give you (239/255 x 6.8) or about 6.38:1 compression, more or less, bolted onto a stock 239. (At least this is my understanding from previous threads). I think a lot of well-intentioned, but un-knowledgable, people bolted Merc stuff onto Fords simply for the cache' of having something visibly Merc (I wouldn't say they did it to deceive anyone, but....)
Thanks mtflat, you caught me dead to rights on that...
-- Ross
Thanks mtflat, you caught me dead to rights on that...
-- Ross