Spark plug indexing
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Well polcat, I think we are out numbered. I understand about the indexing on the hi-po motors to clear the valve train, thats not what I'm disputing. And yes I do run a hotter coil and 8.5 mm wires on my truck, but as of yet a stock dizzy. I guess there are alot of guys out there making alot of power without doing it, but like I've said, I'm not putting out 450-500 horses at the rear wheel running a stroker motor, I've got a nice street truck that really ticks off the cops and most of my neighbors, and I'm just trying a little low buck ingenuity. I am still going to try to get them somewhat indexed and see what it does though, just for giggles. I will let you guys know how it goes!! Thanks for the input guys!
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Joined: May 2003
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From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by polcat
Curtis I am not going to dog your 360, but to add to your spark plug indexing I was always told to get it as closely turned towards the intake valve so as soon as the gas comes in it will spark the fastest.
Turning the plug toward the intake valve so the fuel can be ignited quicker, doesn't wash. The spark doesn't occur till after the intake valve has closed and the piston is almost back up to TDC on the compression stroke. If the fuel was ignited when it came into the cylinder, you'd have a massive backfire as it would also ignite all the fuel/air mixture in the intake manifold. As for indexing Ford plugs with their sealing design, that's damn near impossible to do, unless you've got plenty of cash to buy plugs in bulk, then have the time to sit around all day trying them one by one to see which ones will index where you want them to be. 
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Very good point BadDad, I had not really though of it that way, and I whole heartedly agree on the poor sealing!!! What do you think about these two and four prong spark plugs, do you think they really help or burn any better than a standard plug? Sound like I'm just gonna beat this horse till its dead don't it? Ha Ha! I never doubted your opinion, I had just not though about the valve timing, sounds like you've probably forgot more about this stuff than I will ever know!! Thanks for the input!!
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From: south louisiana
As for ignition systems, What I run on both a 390 and a 5.0 roller motor ( carbed) is the stock points distributor, fitted with a Pertronix unit ( Pertronix I in the 390, a II in the 5.0) Both have a small to large cap adapter, large EFI style cap, Ford Racing 9mm wires, the 390 has a Flamethrower coil , the 5.0 has a Mallory Promaster coil. Both perform flawlessly, the 5.0 even up to 7500 rpms.As for those multiple pronged plugs, I always figured they were gimmicks, just a tool to sell more plugs. Never tried them. But if they worked so well, why do the most popular (biggest selling) plugs sold today still have one prong ? Seems to me that if two or more prongs worked so much better, they would have made the single pronged plugs obsolete by now. When I was talking about the sealing design on Ford plugs, I was reffering to the chamfered seal design, not that they sealed poorly. They seal just as well if not better than the gasket designed plugs just as long as they're tight.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2004
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I too believe the 2 and 4 prong plugs are not worth the money. I do remember reading about them thuogh. They said with two or four prongs the theory is that one prong gets sooted up or just isn't as conductive the spark will jump to the other electrode with the least resistance. Less resistance=higher energy spark.
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That's kinda what I figured, I've never heard anyone sing their praises either. Most people I know that have even tried the Splitfires weren't real impressed with them in the long run. I run Bosch Platinums in mine gapped to .45 and they seem to work great. BadDad do you run any kind of other ignition goodies on either rig, like a ignition control box or rev limiter? I was kind of curious how they would work with the pertronix kit. I would like to add more upgrades to my ignition because just the coil and wires aren't really helping me that much. Starts really good, but seems to fade with the rpms!!
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Joined: May 2003
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From: south louisiana
I don't run any other "goodies". Never saw the need for them. Like I said the 5.0 roller pulled right on up to 7500 with the Pertronix II, Mallory Promaster coil, Ford wires and plugs. The 390 pulls to 6000. Your fading might might be due to the points, if your're still running them.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 987
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From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
The outspokenness on this subject is so great I am compelled to join in!
The new hotter spark ignition systems have mostly, but not completely overcame the problems that indexing spark plugs used to solve especially in racing. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Maybe you have not seen the benefit of it first hand, therefore it doesn't exist correct? Open you mind just a bit and allow it to be objective instead of subjective.
What will be the results of applying both indexing spark plugs and a hotter spark ignition to an engine? Who knows, maybe it will be discovered that indexing has more benefits such as, spark plug durability, less preignition, etc... Some of us will never know and some of us may be curious enough to find out.
Once a long time ago Henry Ford being the objective minded fellow he was designed an engine that used a one piece V8 engine block. He did this even after seeing others fail at their attempts to do this.
Thank goodness for open-mindedness and determination!
The new hotter spark ignition systems have mostly, but not completely overcame the problems that indexing spark plugs used to solve especially in racing. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Maybe you have not seen the benefit of it first hand, therefore it doesn't exist correct? Open you mind just a bit and allow it to be objective instead of subjective.
What will be the results of applying both indexing spark plugs and a hotter spark ignition to an engine? Who knows, maybe it will be discovered that indexing has more benefits such as, spark plug durability, less preignition, etc... Some of us will never know and some of us may be curious enough to find out.
Once a long time ago Henry Ford being the objective minded fellow he was designed an engine that used a one piece V8 engine block. He did this even after seeing others fail at their attempts to do this.
Thank goodness for open-mindedness and determination!
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Joined: May 2003
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From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by Purely Ford
The outspokenness on this subject is so great I am compelled to join in!
The new hotter spark ignition systems have mostly, but not completely overcame the problems that indexing spark plugs used to solve especially in racing. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Maybe you have not seen the benefit of it first hand, therefore it doesn't exist correct? Open you mind just a bit and allow it to be objective instead of subjective.
What will be the results of applying both indexing spark plugs and a hotter spark ignition to an engine? Who knows, maybe it will be discovered that indexing has more benefits such as, spark plug durability, less preignition, etc... Some of us will never know and some of us may be curious enough to find out.
Once a long time ago Henry Ford being the objective minded fellow he was designed an engine that used a one piece V8 engine block. He did this even after seeing others fail at their attempts to do this.
Thank goodness for open-mindedness and determination!
The new hotter spark ignition systems have mostly, but not completely overcame the problems that indexing spark plugs used to solve especially in racing. That is not an opinion it is a fact. Maybe you have not seen the benefit of it first hand, therefore it doesn't exist correct? Open you mind just a bit and allow it to be objective instead of subjective.
What will be the results of applying both indexing spark plugs and a hotter spark ignition to an engine? Who knows, maybe it will be discovered that indexing has more benefits such as, spark plug durability, less preignition, etc... Some of us will never know and some of us may be curious enough to find out.
Once a long time ago Henry Ford being the objective minded fellow he was designed an engine that used a one piece V8 engine block. He did this even after seeing others fail at their attempts to do this.
Thank goodness for open-mindedness and determination!
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 358
Likes: 6
Curtis,
I am using a MSD box with my pertronix ignition and a MSD blaster coil. I have as of yet had no problems. Trash the points if you have them, the pertronix is a snap to install even with a MSD box. Along the lines of you original question with indexing, with the MSD box you can gap your plugs wider therofore more spark and better ignition. I have mine gapped at .055 but, I think I could go a little bigger.
I am using a MSD box with my pertronix ignition and a MSD blaster coil. I have as of yet had no problems. Trash the points if you have them, the pertronix is a snap to install even with a MSD box. Along the lines of you original question with indexing, with the MSD box you can gap your plugs wider therofore more spark and better ignition. I have mine gapped at .055 but, I think I could go a little bigger.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 987
Likes: 2
From: East Bend, Carolina, U.S
Originally Posted by baddad457
You go right on ahead and index your plugs, I'll spend my time more productively making changes that REALLY make a difference,
Hotshot
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
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From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by Purely Ford
Thanks for the subjective insight. That is the same attitude Henry Ford found in others when he was breaking new ground.
As for thinking it's a waste of time, not true, it's been done before and already been proven to be a waste of time.So, NO I'm not being closed minded. Just realistic.
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Zeke, sounds great to me, I will definately look into the pertronix. I was curious how the install would be with the ingnition box and such. You can really run gapped out to .55 with it? I get much over .45 and I start getting alot of missfire at high rpms. BadDad that's awesome that you can pull those kind of rpm's without aftermarket ignition, you build your own engines? Sounds like you've got this ignition stuff down pat, are you a mechanic or a learn from experience ( good and bad!)
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 358
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Curtis,
The install with the pertronix/MSD is very easy. If I remember correctly, The wire from the pertronix that would go to the coil just plugs into the msd trigger wire and the white wire that comes from the MSD plugs to the coil. The directions with the MSD box are very good and they actually have a diagram of this type of set up if I am remembering correctly.
Here's the link. I found it.
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pdf1.pdf
The install with the pertronix/MSD is very easy. If I remember correctly, The wire from the pertronix that would go to the coil just plugs into the msd trigger wire and the white wire that comes from the MSD plugs to the coil. The directions with the MSD box are very good and they actually have a diagram of this type of set up if I am remembering correctly.
Here's the link. I found it.
http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pdf1.pdf
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,141
Likes: 25
From: south louisiana
Originally Posted by Curtis'70
BadDad that's awesome that you can pull those kind of rpm's without aftermarket ignition, you build your own engines? Sounds like you've got this ignition stuff down pat, are you a mechanic or a learn from experience ( good and bad!)