Well, $100 more than a 408 which is $300 more than the 393.

I'd rather just stick with the 393w....a 427 is gettin overboard lol.
I still think the 393w is a little overboard but...whatever

I just got off the phone with CHP, it's NOT a roller block, it's a one piece rear main sealed block, so for me to do the roller's I'd have to convert it that way (is that an ok thing to do, I don't mind as long as it works ok). He said they could get me one but it would be more money (I didn't ask how much, should have though) and I said I heard there was an ad in the MM&FF for that to be $2399 and he said yes...so I can order that at $2400 instead of $2800...thats a plus.

 

See all my rambling and I may have saved you $400 of which I think you should put $300 towards the 427.


You can do the roller that way and it be fine, the linked lifters are a lot more expensive though...last time I checked they were $300-400...but they are stronger due to the fact they don't use the spider retainer and h bars. Seems people who turn high rpm don't like the reduced base circle cams, cannot recall why...hmmm


Did you happen to ask about the overbore?

 

How about this...


what if you could build a hopped up 302 that made more hp and tq than a stock 351w for less than the price your looking to pay for the shortblock alone...not to mention reuse all your components without having to replace them...more money saved.

jegs --- brand new 302 roller explorer shortblock $1200

afr --- heads $1200...simplicity in a direct bolt in...no new intakes to get...no new oil pan...no new distributor...etc....plus the jegs block is new not used like chp or other companies offer...

The original article claimed 400hp from a stock ho shortblock and afr 165 heads...most would claim BS...but when you read forums with mustang owners who have the combo and calculate the 1/4 times they run, it is possible. The explorer shortblock summit sells is torque bias so you would expect less hp of course. The torque would be made slightly higher in the rpms compared to a 351w but you have the 5 speed so its just a matter of you playing with the clutch and throttle. The original numbers with previously menitoned HO cammed shortblock and afrs with 1.7 rockers made 405hp at 6200rpm and 380 tq 4300 rpms. Maybe if someone has desktop dyno they coule punch in this combo using the HO cam then compare that to the carcraft article, then puch in the explorer cam or one of the smaller comp or crane roller cam grinds that are torque biased and use the previous information to get an estimate. Either way form a power perspective it would be better than an oem 351w. Who knows? So have you stopped reading my posts yet? later

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/

 

OK I just got off the phone with Mike at Probe (CHP) industries.

We had a good talk and figured out some pricing. If I get just about all my stuff from them (nice/easy/simple) I can get an almost complete engine custom made for my application for about $5300. Details...

He can get me a roller block, but it would be 300-400 more plus lifters....I can do the roller lifters in the non-roller block for less....and he said it's perfectly fine and reliable it's what they usually do.

Therefore, for $5500 I get:

Shortblock
Custom Cam Grind
Timing chain
oil pump/pickup
roller lifters
pushrods
roller rockers
afr heads 185cc (they have 61cc's but I'll try and get the 64cc. They're also setup with the proper springs/retainers...etc etc for my cam)
6 qt truck oil pan
balancer
flywheel
edlebrock intake
shipping included....$5300ish

The price will not be over that, but I might be able to negotiate for a lower price..they're pretty easy going....if I can get that for under 5k I'll be really happy.

He also said they don't do the .060" bore (there are other inaccuracies in their website I found) and that the most they'd do is a .040"...but I can be guaranteed a .030".

They're orders carry a 3 month warranty...basically anything that is their fault is replaced. I will be more specific on their policy when/if I do order...but general info on it is ok for now.

Sounds good don't it? Opinions/suggestions?

*Mike also said the stuff from Mustang's unlimited comes from CHP

 

I dunno if the money were coming outta my pocket that 300+ hp and tq 302 for half the price would be looking pretty good right about now.

Got a couple questions for you that you can answer or just think over.

First off, I like this thread, its been fun, beats the usual threads that begin, this sounds like this or what cam should I get, will the 1.7 rockers fit, etc threads that are the norm. Here comes the reality of it. Your looking to spend a lot of money on your truck, after you upgrade the radiator, change belt, hoses and install the tranny, fix the axles that break and be prepared for little things to keep popping up...haha... you'll be right around $7-9000. Is this really something you wanna do? Are you prepared for the depreciation in value once you get it rolling and used? $7-9000 and your truck...would make a heck of a down payment on a new(er) truck. Don't get me wrong...I think a high hp modifed 4X4 is great but there are cheaper hobbies out there...haha.


Now back to your thread...the price they quoted you seems great for what they say you'll be getting, you've priced everything and searched around and made your own decision...sounds like a winner to me. All I ask is you post a video or pix of your truck smoking all four tires...you'll have to lemme know if you stick it in any other forum as I only read the performance and general engine building and 289/302/351 section.

YOu wanna hear something that sux...that 468 BBC I told you about before...cost $4000 carb to pan, straight out no core charge...and that included the dyno time...the operators tuning the engine and you could watch them do it...not bad for almost 500hp and even more tq but it sucks that ford didn't mass produce the 351w to the extent that chevy did the 350, otherwise we wouldn't have to pay out the butt. I just spoke to a fella that bought a 383 shortblock all new parts for $700... ..thats life. thought I would end my post getting you all fired up and angry with chevy lovers...hahah

Good luck, after the initial shock of the money out of pocket your gonna be one happy camper and don't forget about that video, if you have to borrow or steal a digital camera, I wanna see it...or pix if thats not possible


later

 

OK JW...i must come clean now that you've mentioned it. I'm not actually buying an engine....Ken (webmaster) has me making alternative/more interesting threads to help raise the thread value of FTE. He thinks that more engaging threads are of more value to FTE...hense my topic....




ahhhh....jk

It has had 1800 views at this point...thats pretty good...700 of those are mine jk..again.

The 302 sounds great but...I guarantee that torque curve is not very flat and will still have no low end torque for a truck. Just not gonna work for my application. That 393 will kick butt! I spent $9,000 on a snowmobile I used once last year (actually 120mi and 5.5 hrs on it)....I'll get a lot of use and enjoyment out of this 393 and ZF trans. I plan on using the sled more....towing it up to maine w/ the 393 will be fun this winter

The way I look at it is that this truck has pretty much all been re-done...it's been customized so much already that...I couldn't easily sell it for much anyway. I mind as well keep it (I really enjoy it and wouldn't get sick of it) and enjoy it. If something breaks...I'll fix it...rust on the body can be fixed, frame rust is being kept at a minimum...with my abilities it's a lot cheaper to keep this truck then buy a new one (which I wouldn't want anyway). I like this truck much more than what comes out now...so I planned on keeping it anyway. My dad kept his trucks for over 10 years....I don't see why I can't do the same

I will probably write up some tech articles for FTE and definitely have some pictures and I'll try to do some videos (I don't have a camera other than my mom's which only uses those small video tapes, not digital I can put on the computer).

 

Do you have desktop dyno?


Now I am wondering just what kinda hp and tq it says the roller 302 would make with the afr 165 with the ho cam, explorer cam, and a comp XE camshaft.

Just trying to support FTE and its ongoing attempt to keep the topics fresh and engaging.


*cough*get the 427 *cough* only $300 more *cough* you'll wish you did *cough*

 

I once bought an Autozone rebuild (4.9 liter I-6). A few months after I installed it I filed a warranty claim since it burned 2 qts oil every 1000 miles. They gave me a new motor and $450 to install it. The new motor burned antifreeze so I filed another warranty claim. Another new motor and another $450. So, a $1000 rebuild ended up costing me $100 and a couple weekends for the installs. The third motor ran for 7+ years and was running great when I drove it to the boneyard.

Autozone was kind of a PITA to deal with on the warranty since I installed it myself but they paid up and honored the warranty. At the time it was 18 months unlimited. Just don't run it hot - the first thing they do is check the heat tabs.....luckily mine were all fine.

Now I can finally get Mr. T off my back for not posting in a while........

 

First it was 351 *cough* now it's 427 *cough*...whats next? A cough at a 625hp 514?

I just was flipping through my mustang magazine...found an ad for AFR...quote that says..."MM&FF dyno tested ford's 392 ci crate engine with gt-40x heads then swapped to the AFR 185cc street heads and amazingly picked up another 75hp with no other modifications"......


That crate motor was rated at 430hp from Ford....

 

*cough* You know you want one *cough*

 

I don't recall the *cough* 351 part.


34 extra cubic inches for $300 is a bargain.


Was that afr test with carb or efi?

So your thinking you'll make at least 500 hp estimated. 500hp X .5 BSFC = 250 ( 8 injectors X .8 = 6.4) 250 divided by 6.4 = 39.04....so you'll need 40 lbhr injectors to support and estimated 500hp.

 

I don't know how true that statement is but if the #24lb'ers don't work out I'll sell them on ebay and get some bigger ones. I really need to figure out how to get a bigger fuel pump but that can wait for now.

 

If a bone stock 302 can generate 400hp with afr 165's I'd say the 450-500 with 185's and the 393..I mean 427 would be realistic.


24lbhr injectors are only good for 300 hp...your definitley gonna make 300 hp..

HP = injector flow rate X number of injectors X .8 divided by an average BSFC of .5


24 lbhr X 8 X .8 = 153.6 divided by .5 = 307.2 hp

See you later mustanggt427 ..

 

Here is a thought, as written in "how to build max performance ford v-8's on a budget"


393 10:1 compression
stock oil pump
I beam rods
comp cams XE 282 hyd roller
AFR 185's with 2.02/1.64 valves
edelbrock vicotr jr with 2 inch spacer
750 cfm carb
1 5/8" long tubes


rpm......hp......tq
2500 244 428
3000 298 447
3500 298 447
4000 361 475
4500 419 489
5000 473 497
5500 513 490
6000 526 460

So with a properly set up/tuned efi, you should match or slightly exceed that given you have a upper and lower able to support it. Then again the cam you select would lower the rpms and possibly increase the tq output...so...Who knows? later

 

that victor is a high rpm intake. not good to use on our rigs. but you already knew that im sure.