Alright, i know that the 302 HO is basiclaly a stock 302 with a 351 Cleaveland Cam and the 351 firing order aswell.

I have tried to find a 351 cleaveland cam with no luck.

My question is:

I have heard and seen somewhere about the CLeaveland Cam being the same as the 351M and 400M, is this true?

 

Pssst, try the engine forum.

 

The early 5.0L HO's (83 and 84) used a 351 "marine" cam, but the 85 and later 5.0L HO's were not just plain 302's with 351c cams. The 85 and later 5.0L HO's used a crane designed hydraulic roller cam. This roller cam was 266/266 advertized duration and 214/214 at .050" lift, and a lift at the valve of .444/.444".

The 351w "marine" cam is 280/290 advertized, 204/214@.050, .448/.472 lift.

The only hydraulic 351c/400 cam listed by Ford performance, is 292/302, 214/224 @ .050, 510/536 lift. This a pretty wild cam, so it's probably not the stock cam. I used to have specs on the 351c/400 cams but I don't recall them off hand.

The 351w flat tappet cam for EFI is 268/276, 206/214 @ .050, .448/.464 lift

 

A Cleveland cam will not work in a 302 engine. You're thinking of a 351 W cam, meaning Windsor.

 

Alright then, so to make a 302 HO out of an oilder 302 (1976) I was told the cleaveland cam would fit.

But you guys say windsor.

What all Would i have to do and what parts would i have to use to make my 302 an HO.

 

A 302 HO has a roller cam and roller lifters, and a different firing order then your 76. The heads from 87 on were of a better flowing design, and most of the HO engines had forged flat top pistons. You're better off buying a HO engine, and sell yours. It will cost you less money that way. There is no easy and simple swap to make your 76 into a HO. You can however, work with what you have to get more power. A cam swap is part of it, but not any factory cam. The aftermarket offers better. Ported heads, double roller timing chain with multiple crank keyways, because your cam is retarded from the factory, an aluminum dual plane intake, a 4 barrel carb between 500 and 600 cfm, a good distributor with a MSD 6-A ignition box, headers with free flowing exhaust. Get the picture? It takes many things working together to make a high performance engine.`

 

I agree, a cam change won't make a big difference by it's self. It may depend on what year of HO one uses as a goal. When the 5.0L first got the name HO in 1983 the "HO" put out a whopping 175 HP. The late 70's 302/5.0L's put out 140HP, so the 351w marine cam and the four barrel carb did improve the power by 35 HP. Nonetheless just putting in the windsor cam will get you only to the 175 HP figure. Many people can testify that putting in a cam(any hot street cam) didn't make that much of difference. Stock cast iron 302 heads will actually flow the most air they can at about .430 valve lift. Stock heads will actually flow LESS air at higher lifts than about .450, so a high lift cam may actually degrade performance. While the cam is important, as can be seen, of much greater concern are the heads. To illustrate this we can look at the evolution of the 85-95 roller lifter cam 5.0 HO's.

The 85 HO used a new roller lifter cam(this requires a compatible block) that was and is pretty good, but still rather mild. A roller lifter cam can have more aggressive ramps, compared to a flat tappet cam, so it can open the valves quicker resulting in more airflow without being too radical in terms of idle quality and emissions or lose low end tourqe. The 85 HO put out 210HP with the same carb and intake as the 84, but the cam wasn't the whole picture. The 85 also had slightly better breathing E5AE heads, shorty headers, and almost a true dual exaust.

The 86 HO got tuned port fuel injection, and true dual exaust, and had higher compression, but put out 10 less HP. The cam was the same, but the special E6SE swirl heads didn't breath as well, due to valve shrouding.

The 87 HO had the same roller cam, same basic fuel injection system, and dual exaust, but used E7TE heads, simlar to the 85's E5AE heads. The heads gave less compression than the 86 heads, but made 25 HP more, using the same cam. However the E7TE heads are still not great breathers compared to what you can get today.

The cast iron GT40 head is an improved version of the E7TE with slightly bigger ports, no exaust "bump", and slightly bigger valves. Putting these on a 85 or 87 HO, using the stock cam, will result in about 265 HP with further gains in low end tourqe. The Gt40 heads on a 5.0 HO, while stepping up to a bigger roller cam, such as the B303 or E303, results in about 285HP. However, even the stock HO roller cam will support 1 HP per cubic inch on a smog legal 302, given the right heads.

Putting aluminum GT40Y Turbo Swirl heads with the GT40 EFI intake while still using the stock cam produces about 305 HP. The GT40X Turbo Swirl head and an E303 cam will produce about 340HP. This is all otherwise stock 5.0L HO bottom ends, and 9:1 compression.

Muscle Mustang magazine wanted to test the TFS twisted wedge head versus the AFR 185 head. They used a stock 5.0 L HO short block with 130,000 miles on it. They installed the fairly radical Comp XE274HR cam. The TFS heads in conjunction with the comp cam made 396 HP at 6,000 rpm, on the 9:1 compression 302. This was NOT a stroker motor. THe AFR 185 heads (they come CNC ported from the factory) did even better, producing over 400 HP out of 302 cubes.

It all depends on what level of 5.0L you want to build. The main thing is the heads. You can install regular E7 type heads, and a cam similar to the 85 HO, in lift and duration (214 at .050) and have about 225HP. You can buy some ported and polished E7's and go for about 290HP or you can put the high tech aftermarket heads on a 302 and go for over 300.

Steve's advice to just find an HO is good idea, they are fairly plentiful and fairly cheap, plus they have the roller lift cam. They can be a lot of fun, and there's millions of aftermarket hot rod parts for them. It's probaly best to avoid the 86 HO as it doesn't have the good flowing heads, and the pistons have no valve reliefs. The 85 roller motor is the best one to get, if you plan on using a carb, because the distributor is compatiable with the roller cam (important) and it's vacuum advance. The 86-up are EFI motors.

 

Related question. What is unique in the (EFI) engines, other than EFI manifold, plenum, throttle body, injectors and wire harness and ECM for such?

Can do away with the EFI stuff on an EFI engine and put a carb manifold on successfully?

 

Just get the HO and be done with it. I had both the 74 and a 69 engine in my maverick, they were the same. The 74 with a mild cam (about like the HO) with an edelbrock intake and holley 600 with stock manifolds was still a dog. Only ran a 16.9 in the 1/4 and thats at 3000lbs with me in it. I have a 5.0 HO project right now going for it.

 

Hi P51D Mustang, that was a very good post you wrote about the power output of various configurations of the 302 and 5.0 engine(s). I have a 351 but a lot of the info is still useful, and certainly interesting.

 

In a 1971 Road & Track test of the Dodge Demon 340, the Nova SS 350
a Hornet SC 360 along with a Comet GT, the Comet ran the 1/4
mile in 16.2@82 mph. That was with a 3.00 rear gear, the stock
two barrel carb and the three speed trans. The 0-60 time was
8.7 seconds. So if your 74 with a bigger cam, four barrel carb
and intake only ran a 16.9, yeah it was a dog. Of course the 74
Mav is heavier. Every 100 pounds is a 10th of a second lost.
Also, in those days the automatics were slower than the sticks.
Was yours an Auto?

 

Yeah, it is an auto, I also had big *** 275/60's on the back. Plus the engine was getting tired and the cam and intake/4bbl didnt make much of a difference with the stocker manifolds either, was dual exhaust though. The big front bumpers/brackets on the 74-77 cars weigh at least 50lbs more each than the small bumpers do, I was amazed at the weight when I pulled them off.

 

Oh yeah, those bumpers weigh a ton! At one time I owned
fifteen Mavericks and Comets, but have scaled back to seven!
Eventually after I finish stripping the parts cars, I'll have five,
That ought to be enough. I am glad I bought all mine several
years ago when they were dirt cheap. Nowadays, I can't
afford them. Plus they are starting to get pretty thinned out.
My first car I ever bought was a 71 2dr Mav with the 170 and
three on a tree, still have it! My total car collection will number
12 as soon as the above task is completed. That should keep
me happy (and busy) from now on. All of em' were bought for
$1200 or less (sometimes a lot less!) but Ebay has ruined
the cheap but still non-smoking, non-rusted, less than 100,000
mile cars around here! I've just been real lucky that I bought
what I have for as little as I paid for them. Those days are gone!

 

Yeah, It was a real killer to find a grabber hood (74 didnt have one) grabber spoiler (no again) and small bumbers for my car, even finding a good front fender was a bitch. Luckily most of the suspension is the same as an early mustang, so theres and aftermarket for it.

 

Hope this doesn't make you sick, but I have two Grabber Hoods and
all the assorted other components. One set was on a 1970 non-
Grabber Mav i bought for $25 back in 1988 and the other set was given
to me for free! NO, they are not for sale (sorry). See what I mean about
lucky?