suspension swap
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,568
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From: Middleton, ID
suspension swap
I've got a 93 f-150 w/ a TTB D44 in the front, I've got a friend whos parting out his 70 f-100/250 (1/2 ton 3/4 ton mix). Anyway, I'm wanting to get some of the suspension parts for my 93' (radius arms and mounts, springs, front and rear, and spring buckets). What I want to know is, will this stuff interchange with my 93' being the 70' is a strait axle 44 compaired to my TTB 44. Oh and the reason for the swapping of parts, this truck fits 36's comfterbly, and I'm going to 35's
On another note about tires, I've got 32's and am going to 35's as said, what kind of gear difference will I notice. Will it be a big difference or not much at all???? Because as of right now my gears are really low.
On another note about tires, I've got 32's and am going to 35's as said, what kind of gear difference will I notice. Will it be a big difference or not much at all???? Because as of right now my gears are really low.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,959
Likes: 9
From: USA
I dont know about interchanging the radius arms and mounts, but the springs may swap. Measure the length and width of your rear springs and compare to those on the other truck.
There may be an issue with the way the radius arms attatch to the axle. On the older trucks they have caps bolted to the end of the radius arms that fit around a pair of 'C' bushings that clamp the round axle tube and welded-on brackets. On the newer trucks, the radius arms bolt to the top and bottom of the radius arm bracket on the axle.
If you really want the radius arms and mounts, you may as well change to the straight axle too. There is a write-up about it in the 'tech articles' section of this site, or you can go to the 'off-road' forum and read several discussions about that swap.
If you do decide to keep the stock TTB front axle, I suggest buying a lift kit made for your truck, at least for the frontend, so you get all the parts you need to keep your alignment angles correct with the increase in suspension height, because of the way the TTB axle halves swing in an arc and change wheel camber with axle angle.
On the gearing, it depends on what gears you have now and if your transmission has overdrive or not and what engine you have, as to how your gears will work with the bigger tires. The effect on gearing will change by the same percentage as the change in tire height.
You can find your axle ratio by looking on the door sticker under axle code and decipher the code in the 'tech articles' section of this site under 'axle decoders', if your gearing is has not been changed by a previous owner.
On an F150 of your year with 3800 lbs axle, '18' and 'H8' are codes for 3.08 ratio and '19' and 'H9' are for 3.55 ratio. There is no factory 4.10 ratio. The 2-digit codes denote an open differential and the alpha-numeric codes denote a limited-slip rear differential.
Typically, with 35" tires, 4.56 is a good gear ratio. I run 4.56's with 33's in my truck, which is a little low for freeway driving since I dont have an overdrive trans, but it's great for towing and off-roading.
There may be an issue with the way the radius arms attatch to the axle. On the older trucks they have caps bolted to the end of the radius arms that fit around a pair of 'C' bushings that clamp the round axle tube and welded-on brackets. On the newer trucks, the radius arms bolt to the top and bottom of the radius arm bracket on the axle.
If you really want the radius arms and mounts, you may as well change to the straight axle too. There is a write-up about it in the 'tech articles' section of this site, or you can go to the 'off-road' forum and read several discussions about that swap.
If you do decide to keep the stock TTB front axle, I suggest buying a lift kit made for your truck, at least for the frontend, so you get all the parts you need to keep your alignment angles correct with the increase in suspension height, because of the way the TTB axle halves swing in an arc and change wheel camber with axle angle.
On the gearing, it depends on what gears you have now and if your transmission has overdrive or not and what engine you have, as to how your gears will work with the bigger tires. The effect on gearing will change by the same percentage as the change in tire height.
You can find your axle ratio by looking on the door sticker under axle code and decipher the code in the 'tech articles' section of this site under 'axle decoders', if your gearing is has not been changed by a previous owner.
On an F150 of your year with 3800 lbs axle, '18' and 'H8' are codes for 3.08 ratio and '19' and 'H9' are for 3.55 ratio. There is no factory 4.10 ratio. The 2-digit codes denote an open differential and the alpha-numeric codes denote a limited-slip rear differential.
Typically, with 35" tires, 4.56 is a good gear ratio. I run 4.56's with 33's in my truck, which is a little low for freeway driving since I dont have an overdrive trans, but it's great for towing and off-roading.
Last edited by SoCalDesertRider; Jul 9, 2004 at 12:09 AM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,873
Likes: 3
From: Atlanta GA
How wide is your frame? On the 1970 it is 34 1/8 inches wide, outside to outside, front and back.
Not without major fab skills and welding, the frames are different sizes, and it takes much work to get the TTB pivot down with an engine in place. The easiest way is to take the body off the truck and use a forklift to move it and a torch to remove the rivets, that is the way I have done it before.
I think with large tires you will find the front drum brakes on the F-250 (and probably manual steering or power assist at the most) a real drag off road and in parking lots.
If it is a true F-250 it should have leaf springs up front.
On your truck (93) if I remember correctly, your stamped steel radius arm bracket connects to your transmission/transfer case cross member to strengthen the bracket and frame too. On the 1970 F-100 4x4 (if it is not a F-250), it is a big heavy cast iron (?) bracket that will not easily fit your frame/cross member. You need a small grinding wheel to remove the inside rivet from the 1970 frame/radius arm bracket and you have to drill it out. No way to get a small 4.5 grinder or torch in there.
I have a 1971 F-100 4x4 (same year range) and doing king pins can be tough because the parts are hard to find and you do not want to buy the drag link because it costs almost $200! So, fabbing one up is the only way to go.
The 1970 F-100/F-250 probably has a Dana 60 or nine inch rear axle, which might be an upgrade from your 8.8. The thing is does your truck have ABS and is your VSS located in the transfer case or the rear axle? I do not think I would swap rear axles unless it is a Dana 60.
imo, a 1993 F-150 is a pretty nice riding and handling truck, though the TTB does have short comings. Though not much at only 35 inch tires. Unless you are swapping in Dana 60s, with disc brakes up front, I do not see a major advantage to swapping suspensions even if they are free considering the work.
There is no major strength differerence between a king pin Dana 44 and TTB Dana 44, imo, especially if the front tube is bowed from 34 years of hard use and big tires. If the truck has been running 36s it is almost guaranteed to need mini kingpins if it has radius arms.
Fairly easy job, but, you have to track down the parts and they cost $200+ to do both sides. imo, It is not an axle for hard romping with 35s.
re: tire clearance
It fits 36s easily because the way the body/suspension on the 70 is designed AND the front fenders are probably trimmed which is way easier to do on the 70 vs. 93. On the 93 you have a real issue with teh front bumper hitting the larger 36 tire.
If you do the front axle and it has power steering you should grab the box, though on your truck it sits inside the frame and on the F-100/250 it sits outside the frame, and is mounted/turns backwards to your newer one if I remember correctly for the 1993 era.
Not without major fab skills and welding, the frames are different sizes, and it takes much work to get the TTB pivot down with an engine in place. The easiest way is to take the body off the truck and use a forklift to move it and a torch to remove the rivets, that is the way I have done it before.
I think with large tires you will find the front drum brakes on the F-250 (and probably manual steering or power assist at the most) a real drag off road and in parking lots.
If it is a true F-250 it should have leaf springs up front.
On your truck (93) if I remember correctly, your stamped steel radius arm bracket connects to your transmission/transfer case cross member to strengthen the bracket and frame too. On the 1970 F-100 4x4 (if it is not a F-250), it is a big heavy cast iron (?) bracket that will not easily fit your frame/cross member. You need a small grinding wheel to remove the inside rivet from the 1970 frame/radius arm bracket and you have to drill it out. No way to get a small 4.5 grinder or torch in there.
I have a 1971 F-100 4x4 (same year range) and doing king pins can be tough because the parts are hard to find and you do not want to buy the drag link because it costs almost $200! So, fabbing one up is the only way to go.
The 1970 F-100/F-250 probably has a Dana 60 or nine inch rear axle, which might be an upgrade from your 8.8. The thing is does your truck have ABS and is your VSS located in the transfer case or the rear axle? I do not think I would swap rear axles unless it is a Dana 60.
imo, a 1993 F-150 is a pretty nice riding and handling truck, though the TTB does have short comings. Though not much at only 35 inch tires. Unless you are swapping in Dana 60s, with disc brakes up front, I do not see a major advantage to swapping suspensions even if they are free considering the work.
There is no major strength differerence between a king pin Dana 44 and TTB Dana 44, imo, especially if the front tube is bowed from 34 years of hard use and big tires. If the truck has been running 36s it is almost guaranteed to need mini kingpins if it has radius arms.
Fairly easy job, but, you have to track down the parts and they cost $200+ to do both sides. imo, It is not an axle for hard romping with 35s.
re: tire clearance
It fits 36s easily because the way the body/suspension on the 70 is designed AND the front fenders are probably trimmed which is way easier to do on the 70 vs. 93. On the 93 you have a real issue with teh front bumper hitting the larger 36 tire.
If you do the front axle and it has power steering you should grab the box, though on your truck it sits inside the frame and on the F-100/250 it sits outside the frame, and is mounted/turns backwards to your newer one if I remember correctly for the 1993 era.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 1
From: Middleton, ID
I'm really having to think about this one because I found the one problem< the mounting style from old to new, so even if I pick up the parts, it'll be a hastle to interchange. If I do get the stuff, I could sell it or swap it for the coreect stuff.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,568
Likes: 1
From: Middleton, ID
Okay, I've read the article about a solid axle swap, it's on basicly the same vehicle as mine, but what about cross members(under the engine)??? The older style had a flat bar or tube across the front of the frame, mine's set up for the TTB, what kind of problems will this cause???
But in all reality, the d44 is a good axle but what I truely want is to swap the half ton axles (D44/8.8) for the axles out of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck (D60/D70) I know those'll hold up to a set of 35s.
As for now, what about the axles out of a 78/79 Ford Bronco?? it's a D44 solid axle/9 inch combo, which is better than the TTB 44 and the 8.8.........Right???
Oh, and the 70 has no triming, it's got a slight body lift(bar bell weights) and it's a complete rust truck, but what can you say for a $100 reposessed truck.
But in all reality, the d44 is a good axle but what I truely want is to swap the half ton axles (D44/8.8) for the axles out of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck (D60/D70) I know those'll hold up to a set of 35s.
As for now, what about the axles out of a 78/79 Ford Bronco?? it's a D44 solid axle/9 inch combo, which is better than the TTB 44 and the 8.8.........Right???
Oh, and the 70 has no triming, it's got a slight body lift(bar bell weights) and it's a complete rust truck, but what can you say for a $100 reposessed truck.
Last edited by 1970Custom; Jul 10, 2004 at 01:45 AM.
