Keyless Remote Distances
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 974
Likes: 1
From: Alhambra CA
A buddy of mine has an aftermarket unit, that cost him around 300 bux. It's one of the best ranges I've ever seen. He says it's got a 1 and 1/2 mile range, and I've seen him start his car from a good 200 yards no problem. It's got an LCD display telling him which doors are open and whether or not the engine is running. Sorry to get off topic, but thats one neat toy.
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Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
From: Mandeville, La
Originally Posted by Jlower
Hllon4whls
Hllon4whls , I'm into amps but not the type your thinking of. I said wave amplifing not power amplifying. A signals waveform can be greatly amplified by first being trapped or conducted through an water intense organism (your body). As long as it can escape before being absorbed then you've helped increase the signals waveform. This increase in waveform can increase the range that it will travel while still maintaining the right signal characteristics to be accepted by the entry system. Your are basically turning your body into a very weak hetrodyning transmitter.
Try slighlty opening your mouth and pointing at your truck while doing the chin theory. Nothing is guaranteed to help, a lot of enviromental and electronic variables still play into this equation.
But since you asked, my life just so happens to evolve around electromagnetic communications and data signal transmission. I've been working at DoD and NSA for the last 13 years. I'm currently a High Band Frequency jamming operator aboard the EC-130H communication jamming platform nicked-named "Compass Call". My overall job title is Electronic Signals Intelligence Exploitation Analyst ELINT/SIGINT. Basically I eavesdrop on a signal, reverse engineer it, then figure away to kill it or exploit it. With multi-million dollar signals analyzing and processing racks you'd be surprized what we can get into. You can see my career fields motto in my signature block...
Hllon4whls , I'm into amps but not the type your thinking of. I said wave amplifing not power amplifying. A signals waveform can be greatly amplified by first being trapped or conducted through an water intense organism (your body). As long as it can escape before being absorbed then you've helped increase the signals waveform. This increase in waveform can increase the range that it will travel while still maintaining the right signal characteristics to be accepted by the entry system. Your are basically turning your body into a very weak hetrodyning transmitter.
Try slighlty opening your mouth and pointing at your truck while doing the chin theory. Nothing is guaranteed to help, a lot of enviromental and electronic variables still play into this equation.
But since you asked, my life just so happens to evolve around electromagnetic communications and data signal transmission. I've been working at DoD and NSA for the last 13 years. I'm currently a High Band Frequency jamming operator aboard the EC-130H communication jamming platform nicked-named "Compass Call". My overall job title is Electronic Signals Intelligence Exploitation Analyst ELINT/SIGINT. Basically I eavesdrop on a signal, reverse engineer it, then figure away to kill it or exploit it. With multi-million dollar signals analyzing and processing racks you'd be surprized what we can get into. You can see my career fields motto in my signature block...
I'll take your word for it. I have worked in the wireless industry for the past 8 years. Most of my concerns is that the customer gets his call or his page without duplicates or garbled audio.
Are you saying that it is an amplitude aplification? No mater the gain in the signal, I dont notice any difference. Possibly due to my swiss cheese brain that causes CRS or the 3-4 lbs of stainless steel in my back. Who knows.
I'll have to add to my resume that my head is a heterodyning transmitter. I am sure that is worth a couple of bucks. 'Specially if I tell them about the voices. LOL
Seriously thanks for the help from you and everyone. I am gonig to search under the steering column for this reciever.
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Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 567
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From: Mandeville, La
Originally Posted by CmprSpecial
My receiver is mounted under the steering column. A little black box about 4 inches square...
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 775
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From: Northern Va
Originally Posted by hllon4whls
Are we talking in the steering column underneath the key mech or under the dash and under the steering column? I looked all under the dash. The only thing I saw was the ECU and a bunch of non box looking stuff.
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Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 567
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From: Mandeville, La
Originally Posted by CmprSpecial
Do you have a status LED? My keyless was an accessory install, and the wire for the LED is just a few inches long and goes directly to the keyless box. I can see my keyless unit, if I remove the fuse access panel and the fuse/relay box.
New User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8
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The antenna for the FOB is located inside the GEM which is mounted on top of the interior fuse block. Both the fuse block and the GEM remove as one peice. If you pull the module out and look inside the GEM you will see about a 10" long peice of 12 ga wire soldered to the board. This is the antenna. The antenna should be tuned to approximately 300 MHz. If you wrap a long wire around the antenna, and extend it into the cab area, you may be able to couple enough RF to the antenna to get some aperture gain and extend the range. The better solution is to install a proper antenna connector on the GEM, and route a real antenna to it. But, this will most definitely void your warranty. Also, if you dont use proper ESD protection, then you could zap the GEM, and that could be costly. I am working on installing a BNC jack on the GEM, and then installing an RF preamp. I'll let you know how it works!
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Hi jchartkoff, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I have a problem that seems right up your alley. <o:p></o:p>
I just purchased a 99 F350 CC Diesel 4wd LB that has keyless entry.<o:p></o:p>
The previous owner said he could never get the remote to work.<o:p></o:p>
I purchased a new remote, tried changing batteries and all the usual things. I am able to get the truck to go into program mode but only once have I been able to get the GEM to accept the remotes. They only worked a point blank range.<o:p></o:p>
I can sometimes get the remote to work if I place it directly by the fuse box.<o:p></o:p>
I am looking for advice. I am planning on pulling the Gem to see if I can figure anything out with the antenna that is contained inside.<o:p></o:p>
Any help would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p>
Thank you<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
David
I have a problem that seems right up your alley. <o:p></o:p>
I just purchased a 99 F350 CC Diesel 4wd LB that has keyless entry.<o:p></o:p>
The previous owner said he could never get the remote to work.<o:p></o:p>
I purchased a new remote, tried changing batteries and all the usual things. I am able to get the truck to go into program mode but only once have I been able to get the GEM to accept the remotes. They only worked a point blank range.<o:p></o:p>
I can sometimes get the remote to work if I place it directly by the fuse box.<o:p></o:p>
I am looking for advice. I am planning on pulling the Gem to see if I can figure anything out with the antenna that is contained inside.<o:p></o:p>
Any help would be appreciated.<o:p></o:p>
Thank you<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
David
New User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
FOB Range Extension
David,
I have pretty much the same problem. However my remote reaches maybe 10 feet. I have read about others, on this forum, who get excellent range. My guess is that whan Ford designed the GEM, they perhaps did not pay much attention to the RF characteristics of the GEM. If they did, it would certianly have a better antenna system. When I was drying my GEM out (following a faulty windshield replacement - that's another bad story) I noticed a module soldered to the board. I think it was perhaps an adjustable tuning coil? (If anybody knows please advise... I did not look that closely at the device, so I am not certian.) If there is, in fact, an adjustable coil, it may be possible to use a plastic screwdriver to tune the receiver for maximum range. In any case, there must be some sort of tuned circuit that can be peaked, but I dont have access to the schematic diagram for the GEM.
What I am pondering now, is the use of an RF preamp arrangement that can couple to the GEM through the plastic housing much like a cell phone antennas couples through the glass.
At this point, I am trying to determine the range of frequencies the FOB transmits on. If anybody knows, please advise.
Thank you.
I have pretty much the same problem. However my remote reaches maybe 10 feet. I have read about others, on this forum, who get excellent range. My guess is that whan Ford designed the GEM, they perhaps did not pay much attention to the RF characteristics of the GEM. If they did, it would certianly have a better antenna system. When I was drying my GEM out (following a faulty windshield replacement - that's another bad story) I noticed a module soldered to the board. I think it was perhaps an adjustable tuning coil? (If anybody knows please advise... I did not look that closely at the device, so I am not certian.) If there is, in fact, an adjustable coil, it may be possible to use a plastic screwdriver to tune the receiver for maximum range. In any case, there must be some sort of tuned circuit that can be peaked, but I dont have access to the schematic diagram for the GEM.
What I am pondering now, is the use of an RF preamp arrangement that can couple to the GEM through the plastic housing much like a cell phone antennas couples through the glass.
At this point, I am trying to determine the range of frequencies the FOB transmits on. If anybody knows, please advise.
Thank you.
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New User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 18
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Thank you for the reply jchartkoff,
If you discover anything please let me know. As I said before I just got the truck and would love to get the keyless entry working.
My friend who works for a Ford dealer here in Sacramento has been telling me that it is not the Gem that I need but that I probably have the wrong remote. I did not think this was the case as I was able to get it to work (once) at point blank range. He had me bring the truck in to the dealer today and he checked out a new remote from the parts department. He then told me I need a new GEM.
He has been telling me that I probably have the wrong remote and that because the GEM goes into program mode and evverything else works it could not be the GEM. My logic was that because I was able to get the remote that came with the truck and the new remote I purchased off of ebay to work at point blank range that it was probably not the remote but rather the antenna in the GEM.
Anyway when he thinks he is right there is no telling him different. His cost on a new GEM is $321.31 so I am very interested in trying to modify the antenna.
If you open your GEM box up again, could you take some pictures? If you have any success with another antenna I would love to give it a try.
Thank you,
David
If you discover anything please let me know. As I said before I just got the truck and would love to get the keyless entry working.
My friend who works for a Ford dealer here in Sacramento has been telling me that it is not the Gem that I need but that I probably have the wrong remote. I did not think this was the case as I was able to get it to work (once) at point blank range. He had me bring the truck in to the dealer today and he checked out a new remote from the parts department. He then told me I need a new GEM.
He has been telling me that I probably have the wrong remote and that because the GEM goes into program mode and evverything else works it could not be the GEM. My logic was that because I was able to get the remote that came with the truck and the new remote I purchased off of ebay to work at point blank range that it was probably not the remote but rather the antenna in the GEM.
Anyway when he thinks he is right there is no telling him different. His cost on a new GEM is $321.31 so I am very interested in trying to modify the antenna.
If you open your GEM box up again, could you take some pictures? If you have any success with another antenna I would love to give it a try.
Thank you,
David
New User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
David,
You may have a blown RF Front End amp in the GEM. It sounds like it has very poor sensitivity. Like I was thinking earlier, the engineers at Ford may not invest much in the RF characteristics of the GEM. Either the sensitivity is low, or the transmitter and receiver are on different frequencies. The GEM may be fine, and the coding may be correct, but the range may be low because the frequency is just one channel off.
The first question is what frequency is the receiver tuned to, and the next question is what frequency is the transmitter tuned to. Without examining it with a spectrum analyzer, the only way to know is to ask the designers of the thing.
Unfortunately, Ford will not let you return a GEM if it is not bad. Maybe the dealer will try it for you, and not charge you if it not the GEM.
In any case, I wouldnt think my range extension scheme would work in the situation you are in.
Let me know what you find out, but I am thinking you may really have a bad front end amp in the GEM.
John
You may have a blown RF Front End amp in the GEM. It sounds like it has very poor sensitivity. Like I was thinking earlier, the engineers at Ford may not invest much in the RF characteristics of the GEM. Either the sensitivity is low, or the transmitter and receiver are on different frequencies. The GEM may be fine, and the coding may be correct, but the range may be low because the frequency is just one channel off.
The first question is what frequency is the receiver tuned to, and the next question is what frequency is the transmitter tuned to. Without examining it with a spectrum analyzer, the only way to know is to ask the designers of the thing.
Unfortunately, Ford will not let you return a GEM if it is not bad. Maybe the dealer will try it for you, and not charge you if it not the GEM.
In any case, I wouldnt think my range extension scheme would work in the situation you are in.
Let me know what you find out, but I am thinking you may really have a bad front end amp in the GEM.
John
New User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 18
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"I am thinking you may really have a bad front end amp in the GEM."
Would you know what this part looks like? Do you think this part could be replaced? I am pretty good with a soldering iron.
If it is not repairable without replacing the gem, I would probably be better off to put that money towards a good aftermarket alarm.
Thanks
David
Would you know what this part looks like? Do you think this part could be replaced? I am pretty good with a soldering iron.
If it is not repairable without replacing the gem, I would probably be better off to put that money towards a good aftermarket alarm.
Thanks
David
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 227
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I'm an expert in antennas and communications devices, including many wireless devices. When you say "looking for the antenna", at first I thought you might have meant within the FOB. However, given the steering column deal, sounds like the car-mount you're looking for.
Your antenna should come out under the cab roof and mount to the windshield at the very top just behing the rear-view mirror (this was a post-factory add-on correct, with remote starter?)
If you have the factory antenna, FOB, it is back in the dashboard. Reception is not guaranteed for anything other than standing in the vicinity of the vehicle.
The after-market mod (windshield mount) should be good for 1/4 to 1/2 a mile with line-of-sight.
Let me know which you have ... then I'll post more info to you, and tell you exactly the length of antenna you need (equation is 451/frequency in MHz to give you a 1/2 wave ... I'll do the math and interpretation later).
PSK
Your antenna should come out under the cab roof and mount to the windshield at the very top just behing the rear-view mirror (this was a post-factory add-on correct, with remote starter?)
If you have the factory antenna, FOB, it is back in the dashboard. Reception is not guaranteed for anything other than standing in the vicinity of the vehicle.
The after-market mod (windshield mount) should be good for 1/4 to 1/2 a mile with line-of-sight.
Let me know which you have ... then I'll post more info to you, and tell you exactly the length of antenna you need (equation is 451/frequency in MHz to give you a 1/2 wave ... I'll do the math and interpretation later).
PSK