My fiancee has been wanting to replace her 99 Ranger for a full size new truck. I really want her to get a Ford but in the end it's what she wants. While I was at work the other day, she went to the stealership where she bought the Ranger about 10 months ago. They charged her $12,500 for the Ranger. Her payoff is now 10,500. NADA retail is about $10,500. When she bought the Ranger, I had to replace the brakes al the way around, all the fluids, and the automatic vacuum front hubs, tailgate and a few small things.
She went back to this same dealer to talk about trading up to an F-150 4wd. Before it was over, They offered rebates and trade-in worth $7500, and deducted that from the sticker price. (about $24K) This puts her at $17K. THEY ADD ON THE FULL $10500 PAYOFF ON THE RANGER ON TO THE BILL. This $10.5K plus the $17K puts her in the spot of paying for two trucks, and giving them the Ranger to boot. The salesman tries to tell me that they gave her $7500 in trade, but I know that there was $4K in rebates. That means they gave her $3500 for the Ranger she bought there for $12.5K, and then told her to pay her payoff on it as well as the new F-150. They tricked her so much as to have the paperwork signed and ready to go. I put a stop to that.
I have four Fords right now and it's B.S. like that that really makes me appreciate how courteous the GM salesman was to my old lady. I go to a different Ford dealer to try to change things up and start fresh. All I want from this guy is a price on his truck. "First I need you to sign this" yeah, right. "give me a price or I am leaving now". The salesman says, "before I can do that, what's it gonna take to get you in that truck today?"
" I am not buying a truck today, I just want a price."
"Wait here for a minute"
He comes back with the manager who is so busy telling me how reputable his staff is he is still not answering the question. The manager tells me how they don't use high pressure tactics like "What's it gonna take to get you in that truck today?" (See paragraph above)
We have money, we know what we want. Why is it that these guys can't see that all they have to do is listen?
My fiancee now is leaning towards a Cheby because the GM salesman earned my fiancee's trust, while guys that represent the brand I've been loyal to since 1980 can't be trusted.
It's like Dad used to say "I'm not very mad, but I am VERY disappointed."
I will try Van Bortel to see if I can keep the Blue Oval alive and well at my place. What's really bad is that I suspect it's going to be easier to talk to New York than my own neighbors.

 

I'd hardly be blaming the dealer on this one....

sure they might have been a little rude.... but you seemed to be expecting them to give you 12K for a 5 year old truck...

 

Don't feel rained on!

I stopped by a very large dealership about 80 miles from home the other day. I know exactly what I want in a Superduty. They had about fifty '04's on the lot, but none exactly like I wanted.

I'm just kicking tires right now and have not decided yet whether to order an '05 or not. But I've visited six dealers and have a list of what they have in stock so if Ford gets right with incentives on '04s, I'll be ready to make an offer.
(Read not take what they want.) Definately, we will buy or order before September 15th, maybe sooner.

So at at this "big" dealership a "sales consultant" greets us and we discuss what we were looking for. The fellow was real nice and even ran a search for us on the Ford computer network. When all was said and done and we were preparing to depart, he ventured that they would take their invoice, mark it up $1500 dollars and then add a several hundred dollar regional advtersing fee, plus tax title and all.

One good bit of information he shared was about the other three dealers that are owned by the same outfit across the state.

I didn't say a word. We just left and we left quickly!! WE probably will not go back there, and probably will not visit any of the other three dealers they "own" either.

 

I uderstand that a dealer has to buy low and sell high Evryone needs a profit. My big bitch is that the ranger was going for 12,500 When my fiancee got it at the same 8 or 9months ago. It needed tires, brakes, drums shoes and pads all around, all fluids were Replaced front inner and outer vacuum hub assemblies fixed A/C. New IAC valve, new 31x10.5 all terrains EVERY FlUID CHANGED. (4x4)
The payoff is 10,550 on the ranger. It runs perfectly and everything is straight . In light of all the work we have done (lots) vs. the mileage (not much) we have put on it. I dont think it is unreasonable to expect $11,500, it's in twice as good a shape as it was when my fiancee bought it.. They could have at least made a respectable offer of about $10,000 trade-in, knowing they can sell it now for 14K, but my biggest problem is that they wanted to take the trade, add the trade in total amount owed (payoff), and add that to the new f-150. Pay for two, only have one.WTF?
With a 4K rebate added to the allowance, the total allowance came to $7500. That means the balance is $3500 for her truck trade in

 

Bottom line: If their offer of $7500 for her truck included the rebates, then they were trying to steal it. If you think this is something only Ford dealers do, and the Chevy dealers walk on water, guess again. You've had the unfortunate luck of finding a Chevy dealer that treated her right, and a couple of Ford dealers that didn't. I'm sure a little more shopping will find a Ford dealer that will take care of you. As for adding the closeout of her trade-in, that is the proper way to do it. Here in New York, you pay sales tax on the "difference" (selling price of the new truck less the trade-in value). Once you've calculated that, the close-out gets added to the price. You can't subtract it from the trade-in, because then you'll be paying too much sales tax.

You mentioned trying us (Van Bortel)- did you send me a private message? I deleted one by mistake this morning, before I could read it. If that was yours, just send it again and I'll get back to you.

I was talking about this with the last person to pick up a truck through the FTE Purchase Program, the way people are treated at a car dealership. I certainly appreciate the business I've earned here, but it doesn't say much for the current "state of affairs" in this industry when people have to drive across country to get a fair deal and respectful treatment.

 

Sorry to say, but in your business, being as deceitful and dishonest as you can seem to be the order of the day. Not saying every dealer is like that, but I talk to a lot of them, and its does seem to be the majority.

The favorite trick around here right now is to advertise a "One Unit Only At This Price" low ball unit. The trouble is, they don't have the unit. Sure, they had it 4-5 weeks ago, but not any longer. This "Bait and Switch" tactic is of course illegal, but when you challenge them, their stock answer is "Oh, we have to put those ads in the paper so far in advance, it's hard to keep up."

If you want to find out more tricks, many of which I have been the attempted victim of, read here:

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

Sorry Jeff if this upsets you, but my personal experience, after buying about 60-70 cars over the last 30 years, is that car salesmen are scum. They will look you in the eye and lie to you, then go eat pasta with the Mrs. and never break a sweat.

The only thing that I can figure is that being dishonest is the business plan at most dealers.

 

It doesn't upset me, because it's mostly true. If the TV magazine shows can be believed, however, the problem seems to vary from one area of the country to another. Whenever they (60 Minutes, 20/20) want to do a "big bad car dealer" story, they always head for the South or West. From their reports, it seems that CA, TX, FL, and NV seem to have more than their fair share of dishonest dealers. We have local dealers that stretch the truth around here, but not to the extent that I see on Dateline; our Attorney General is pretty tough on car dealers (we're not even allowed to use the word "invoice" in any of our ads).

As for me, it's one of the reasons I got into the car business. I figured, if I just treated people decently, it would set me apart and that I'd sell at least a fair number of cars. Everyone (dealers and salespeople) are always trying to find that "secret something" that will suddenly cause them to sell umpteen-million vehicles. This ain't rocket science, folks; it's called "The Golden Rule."

 

Jeff,

Now I think I understand more about this forum.

I guess as a New User I can't use the word "invoice" here.

See my above post and the term "he ventured that they would take their..." I meant to say the "bad word" starting with an "I" here. I tried to edit my post three times to include the "I" word. Wasn't alowed to include the "I" word. Even though my post showed the "I" word on preview it would not show in my final post above.

Didn't think I was being profane or anything. Moderator???

 

Did it again!! The word begins with an I and ends with a voice.

 

This kind of crap happened to us when we were buying our excursion. My dad was looking at expeditions but he was skeptical of it towing our toyhauler full of quads. The guy pulled us into the office and was saying the whole "what will it take to get you into a truck today" crap. Then he tried selling us a mercury mountaineer and claimed it had a high towing capacity . Then when we were talking trade-ins he was telling us how much our truck was a piece of crap before he even saw it, "It probably needs new tires...transmission this...radiator that..." My dad got p/o'd and screamed his way out of the dealership, with no refraint of using america's favorite word in all ways possible. Everyone was staring at us with fright at the dealership. About a month later we went to a different dealer and it turned out great. Don't give in to Chevy!

 

Don't get me wrong- I'v been ate up with blue oval fever ever since I can remember. That doesn't mean that I am going to get it tattooed across my chest and never question a salesman. The ideal situation would be if the GM salesman would have been working at one of the Ford dealerships we visited. He met us in the lot, asked if he could help us with anything, listened to what we wanted, and then excused himself. He returned in about two minutes with his business card, and there was a price and a stock number written on the back. "This is my best price for that one on the second row. If you'd like to drive it or have any questions just wave at me and I'll bring you the keys" I have no doubt that we would have bought a vehicle that same day. It's a matter of respect to me as a customer. I work too hard for my money to give it to someone who only sees me as a statistic and doesn't respect me. If Van Bortel can make a fair offer it's well worth my time to take a little drive to pick up a vehicle.

PS Jeff- I did send you an e-mail yesterday before I figured out the messaging feature, so you have a message also-Thanks, Dan

 

So many dealers lie and cheat, and have for so long, the only thing that I can figure is that they make more money doing it that way. Being honest and truthful just doesn't sell as many cars.

Like I said, it must be the business plan.

 

bodabdan-


Check your e-mail and your private message files.

 

No, they just THINK they're making more money and selling more cars. Six months after we bought this dealership, we were the number one volume Ford dealer in the area. 2 years later, we're number 12 in the region (which no Ford dealer in Rochester has EVER done before). And it's all been done with one, set discounted price, leaving our vehicles unlocked 24/7 so YOU can look 24/7, and providing all the information we can up-front. We've never asked a customer that stupid and insulting question, "what's it gonna take to put you in this vehicle tonight?" We're killing the competition, and they're just too stupid to learn. That makes it tough for customers that shop those people, but it's great for the people that do find out about us (not too mention my wallet!).

 

bodabdan-

Check your private messages again. I made a mistake on the price of the Lightning- we just lowered the price to invoice.