master cylinder cleaning
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: Lewisville, NC
master cylinder cleaning
My incredibly bad-looking master cylinder may be salvageable after all. The cylinder interior where the piston/seals/etc. live has no pitting in it at all, so it should clean up fine. The reservoir OTOH is coated with a varnish-like substance that I'd like to get rid of - any suggestions on solvents to get rid of the varnish and down to bare metal?
I know I'm going to have to thoroughly clean the cylinder and soak it in DOT 5 fluid before reassembly to flush out any contaminaints.
Rebuilding this truck is a LONG process.
-Scott
I know I'm going to have to thoroughly clean the cylinder and soak it in DOT 5 fluid before reassembly to flush out any contaminaints.
Rebuilding this truck is a LONG process.
-Scott
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,813
Likes: 13
From: Littleton, New Hampshire
Scott,
I agree with the others. Use alcohol as any petroleum based cleaner will contaminate brake fluid. This might be a good opportunity to give silicone fluid a shot. I used it in my 65 Mustang and was very happy with it and will be using it in my F-3 when I get that far along...
Vern
I agree with the others. Use alcohol as any petroleum based cleaner will contaminate brake fluid. This might be a good opportunity to give silicone fluid a shot. I used it in my 65 Mustang and was very happy with it and will be using it in my F-3 when I get that far along...
Vern
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
I don't want to start the silicone brake fluid debate here, but make sure you check for compatibility before you go silicone as Vern suggests. (Scott has some wheel cylinder kits he got from me a while back). The kits may very well be silicone tolerant, but I just don't know. You'll have a mess if they aren't.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,813
Likes: 13
From: Littleton, New Hampshire
'fenders,
I've never heard that some wheel cylinder kits are silicone intolerant. Aren't they all made of the same stuff? If anything, it would seem that silicone fluid would be easier on the parts than regular brake fluid. Glad I didn't know that before I converted my Mustang...ignorance is bliss they say.
Vern
I've never heard that some wheel cylinder kits are silicone intolerant. Aren't they all made of the same stuff? If anything, it would seem that silicone fluid would be easier on the parts than regular brake fluid. Glad I didn't know that before I converted my Mustang...ignorance is bliss they say.
Vern
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Vern
We use silicone brake fluid in the military. We have a funny story that comes up now and then. One of my senior Sergeants that works for me swiped some fluid way back when and put it in his 70s Chevy pickup. The master cylinder lid gasket must have swollen up to about 6" x 10". It smoked about every piece of rubber in his entire brake system in a few weeks. Master and the wheel cylinders were junk. Silicone is great for vehicles that sit because it protects against corrosion. But it isn't safe for all systems. And I don't really know which it is OK to use it in. I don't use it unless the owners manual lists it as acceptable.
We use silicone brake fluid in the military. We have a funny story that comes up now and then. One of my senior Sergeants that works for me swiped some fluid way back when and put it in his 70s Chevy pickup. The master cylinder lid gasket must have swollen up to about 6" x 10". It smoked about every piece of rubber in his entire brake system in a few weeks. Master and the wheel cylinders were junk. Silicone is great for vehicles that sit because it protects against corrosion. But it isn't safe for all systems. And I don't really know which it is OK to use it in. I don't use it unless the owners manual lists it as acceptable.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,813
Likes: 13
From: Littleton, New Hampshire
'fenders,
Could it be that the silicone fluid used in the military is different from the silicone fluid you buy at parts houses? How old is that story? Perhaps the chemical content has changed over the years. Most owners manuals aren't going to list it as acceptable because it wasn't the standard used by the automotive industry, but I think I heard it is being used now in some newer vehicles...not sure. I've only used it one vehicle and it worked great. Maybe I was just lucky. I'll be using the master cylinder and wheel cylinders from my 87 Chrysler 5th Avenue donor car on my old F-3 and that will be the second vehicle I use it in. Like you said the primary reason for using it is if you have a vehicle that sits a lot. Here in the upper Northeast my truck will sit from about November through April because of the ice and salted roads so I need it. Thanks for the info and the "humor in uniform" story. I'm going to take one of the caps off my master cylinder and put some silicone fluid on the cap gasket. If it swells up I'll let you know. I'd rather lose a cap gasket than the whole brake system!
Vern
Could it be that the silicone fluid used in the military is different from the silicone fluid you buy at parts houses? How old is that story? Perhaps the chemical content has changed over the years. Most owners manuals aren't going to list it as acceptable because it wasn't the standard used by the automotive industry, but I think I heard it is being used now in some newer vehicles...not sure. I've only used it one vehicle and it worked great. Maybe I was just lucky. I'll be using the master cylinder and wheel cylinders from my 87 Chrysler 5th Avenue donor car on my old F-3 and that will be the second vehicle I use it in. Like you said the primary reason for using it is if you have a vehicle that sits a lot. Here in the upper Northeast my truck will sit from about November through April because of the ice and salted roads so I need it. Thanks for the info and the "humor in uniform" story. I'm going to take one of the caps off my master cylinder and put some silicone fluid on the cap gasket. If it swells up I'll let you know. I'd rather lose a cap gasket than the whole brake system!
Vern
Last edited by GreatNorthWoods; Jul 4, 2004 at 04:23 AM.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Vern
I will check out the MIL SPEC on our silicone fluid, and our equipment lubrication orders. I just seem to recall reading long ago you should always use the correct brakefluid. Is the word DOT 3 or 5 specifically listed on your silicone brakefluid? If it is, then I am raising a warning flag for nothing. If it's not, I wouldn't chance use it without checking. There are only a couple kinds of fluid to my knowledge.
And the story is from about 1990. The vehicle was probably about a 78 Chevy pickup. Do you remember Aesop's fables from your childhood? This is ours that we use to illustrate what happens when the little Private steals.
I will check out the MIL SPEC on our silicone fluid, and our equipment lubrication orders. I just seem to recall reading long ago you should always use the correct brakefluid. Is the word DOT 3 or 5 specifically listed on your silicone brakefluid? If it is, then I am raising a warning flag for nothing. If it's not, I wouldn't chance use it without checking. There are only a couple kinds of fluid to my knowledge.
And the story is from about 1990. The vehicle was probably about a 78 Chevy pickup. Do you remember Aesop's fables from your childhood? This is ours that we use to illustrate what happens when the little Private steals.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,484
Likes: 7
From: New Egypt, New Jersey
I have heard of this too.
If my memory serves me correctly, It was a printed warning that came with a new master cylinder that I had purchased years ago for my first '59 F-100.
I was told (back then by a mechanic) that silicon fluid was incompatable with conventional fluid, and that you would have to flush the entire system thoroughly (or replace) before switching to silicon. I was also told that some seals on certain older vehicles may react differently to silicon.
I don't know how much truth this holds, if any. Just wanted to mention that I've heard of this too.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Albany NY
This has got me thinking.
I'm just getting started rebuilding my truck's vacuum brake booster. I had the good fortune of finding an NOS FORD rebuild kit on EBay. I'm also doing the rest of the brake system and replacing all the plumbing. I want to convert to DOT 5. I think I'll throw all the rubber parts that see brake fluid in a cup of DOT 5 a day or so before I use them. Part of the problem might be that there were some silicone brake fluids produced years ago that were incompatable with a lot of brake components. Appearantly there are some materials good for use with DOT 3 but not DOT 5. Anyone know what material it is in the old stop lite switches that's a problem? I've seen where DOT 5 compatable replacements are now advertised.
I've seen that varnish like stuff in master cylinder reservoirs. I think I've just cleaned it out with alcohol as best I can. It might be a good thing to help prevent rust.
I'm just getting started rebuilding my truck's vacuum brake booster. I had the good fortune of finding an NOS FORD rebuild kit on EBay. I'm also doing the rest of the brake system and replacing all the plumbing. I want to convert to DOT 5. I think I'll throw all the rubber parts that see brake fluid in a cup of DOT 5 a day or so before I use them. Part of the problem might be that there were some silicone brake fluids produced years ago that were incompatable with a lot of brake components. Appearantly there are some materials good for use with DOT 3 but not DOT 5. Anyone know what material it is in the old stop lite switches that's a problem? I've seen where DOT 5 compatable replacements are now advertised.
I've seen that varnish like stuff in master cylinder reservoirs. I think I've just cleaned it out with alcohol as best I can. It might be a good thing to help prevent rust.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,813
Likes: 13
From: Littleton, New Hampshire
Originally Posted by fatfenders
Vern
Is the word DOT 3 or 5 specifically listed on your silicone brakefluid? If it is, then I am raising a warning flag for nothing.
Is the word DOT 3 or 5 specifically listed on your silicone brakefluid? If it is, then I am raising a warning flag for nothing.
Yes, the label on my silicone fluid says Dot 5. I bought it at my local VIP store here in town...
Vern
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by GreatNorthWoods
'fenders,
Yes, the label on my silicone fluid says Dot 5. I bought it at my local VIP store here in town...
Vern
Yes, the label on my silicone fluid says Dot 5. I bought it at my local VIP store here in town...
Vern
Last edited by fatfenders; Jul 4, 2004 at 11:27 AM.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,484
Likes: 7
From: New Egypt, New Jersey
Originally Posted by fatfenders
But only one forum member losing his brakes is too many so it's worth a little more research.
Well said!
A quick search found this.........
http://www.knottbrake.com/assets/att...1D016C8AA5.pdf
The last paragraph on the first page causes some concern.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Thanks Kenny,
That's pretty much how I remember it. I found it interesting the article doesn't cite the moisture fighting characteristics of silicone fluids. I was of the understanding that it did.
Vern
I guess the good news is the one catastrophic failure I know of occurred in short order. Only a matter of a couple days and the seals had the feel of door weatherstrip. I know you have been running silicone a good while. You would know by now if your seals were going to melt.
Biggest problem I can foresee is when you pickup a rebuilt master at Napa. How do you know you are still good withsilicone? Perhaps all modern seals are silicone tolerant these days?
That's pretty much how I remember it. I found it interesting the article doesn't cite the moisture fighting characteristics of silicone fluids. I was of the understanding that it did.
Vern
I guess the good news is the one catastrophic failure I know of occurred in short order. Only a matter of a couple days and the seals had the feel of door weatherstrip. I know you have been running silicone a good while. You would know by now if your seals were going to melt.
Biggest problem I can foresee is when you pickup a rebuilt master at Napa. How do you know you are still good withsilicone? Perhaps all modern seals are silicone tolerant these days?