This is on my 1994 Econoline 150 conversion van with a 5.0L 302, with factory R-134.

During the winter while running it made a loud scraping noise from the front of the engine. I thought it was the power-steering pump. I popped the hood and saw sparks and smoke coming from the A/C clutch pulley area. I'm guessing that the clutch is fried or the electronics at the front pulley area are toasted. I've been doing some searching here and on other Ford forums but have not come across any similar problems. The weather here in SE lower Michigan (metro Detroit area) is starting to warm up and this van is my wife's daily driver. Needless to say we haven't used the defrost since the afternoon this happened nor the A/C yet. I haven't played with it to see if it turns freely by hand or tried running the engine then engaging the A/C to see what happens.

I need to change the clutch. I've done some reading up on A/C clutches and I've been seeing something called coils as well, that requires the compressor to be pulled. Bear in mind I've never changed an A/C clutch out but I have the step-by-step procedure on how to do it. I'll need some sort of clutch tool to take it out from what I've been reading.

Prior to this all throughout the past couple of years the A/C has been blowing kinda cool in the front but warm in the back where my little girls ride. Was that a foreshadowing of this clutch problem? Could my A/C clutch have been slipping all the while? Any thoughts? Thanks!



__________________
Gonzalo Duque "Gonzo"
Westland, Michigan
http://www.geocities.com/tbirddmnd/tbird1.html

 

Your clutch is bad. The A\C runs when you use the heater and defrost in the winter, you just didn't know it because the blend door only lets air from the heater core in to the passenger compartment. This is normal on newer cars and trucks.
I wouldn't bother just changing the clutch, change the compressor with a new clutch already installed. You will find the price is not very much more than just a clutch and it's easier to do the job. You will need some special and expensive tools if you decide to do just the clutch anyways. You also have to think about the fact that if the clutch went bad than how much longer will the compressor last?
You said you weren't getting very cool air, that could be a sign of a bad clutch but it could just as well be a sign of a bad compressor.

 

Thanks for your reply loneranger.

I've been thinking about the compressor but for right now my budget doesn't allow the purchase of one. The cheapest around here for a rebuilt is in the vicinity of $177 ~ $190, while a new one is in the $280 area. I can get a new clutch for $80, plus a $17 deposit for the clutch removal tool which I'll get back when I return it. So for now I'm going to go with the assumption that the A/C clutch was slipping causing the poor cooling performance, and that it eventually weakened and the bearings are shot. I saw the sparks and smoke happen and it was quite a show.

I'm going to go ahead and replace the clutch first to see what happens. I have a step-by-step instruction sheet with drawn diagrams as to how I should proceed. I know I have enough R-134 in it, I put in 2 cans last summer.

As soon as I install it sometime this weekend I'll let you know what the results are.

Thanks again.

 

For what it's worth-
I agree with loneranger, don't replace just clutch- drive without AC for a while if you have to, then do the whole compressor/clutch/filter/evac/recharge/belt thing. Or let it be done by a shop, if you have short term problems you can take it back.

The price you got for clutch, was that a complete clutch? Some come in more than one part, the clutch itself, and the coil being another, the coil is that mass of wound wire inside the clutch.

Offering this from the point of view that I've seen piece-meal replacements tried every summer for years - and rarely do they ever work out.
Vehicle owner ends up paying for what they've tried to do, and again for fixing it right.

 

Thanks KenB for your reply.

You got me to thinking and searching, and yes, I've had that situation happen to me before where I go to fix 1 part and I wind up having to replace the rest of it anyway. I didn't replace anything yet and will go with the compressor replacement. I located a decently-priced FS10 A/C compressor on eBay and I may go for it. The seller is asking $135 for it plus $20 for shipping. That's cheaper than all of the parts stores near me. Here's the link, maybe someone can see and advise me if it's worth it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

The next hurdle is the recovery of the R-134 refrigerant. I have a CD of the Ford Service Manual and it's suggesting the recovery before the actual removal of any hoses and the compressor. I checked around and there doesn't seem to be any kits anyone can buy to do this. Are there any ideas on how to go about recovering the R-134 for the driveway mechanic?

Thanks again for your replies!

 

Home refrigerant recovery isn't usually an option, unless you have a $5K evac/recharge machine in your home workshop.

Is there a Pep Boys, Napa, or ABC Parts near you? Any wholesale/retail parts houses/suppliers.
Just suggesting you consider a local source for unit, eBay (vendor) would be difficult obtaining warranty exchange from. Sometimes the cheapest price isn't.

Once any of those lines/parts are broken open, you're going to have a lot of 'debris' floating around in the system.
The guarantee of not having difficulties because of that is part of the price you pay when having a shop do the work.

If you do it yourself, purchase at same time an orifice tube (filter) from $3 to $6, make certain it is on the same receipt. Many mfg will not warranty a compressor unless orifice tube is also replaced.

Each AC repair shop is different, even if it's part of a chain.
After evac, it's considered by many the wise thing to do, to literally blow out the system. EPA doesn't like this term, many shops no longer do it at all.

Just be certain you have a clear understanding from either parts supplier or shop what you need to do/purchase for there to be a real warranty in effect when work is completed, either by you or a shop.

 

Thanks again KenB for your reply.

In trying to get various opinions it was suggested to me on another forum that I may have the condition known as "Black Death" where the Teflon coated rings in the compressor were shed into the condenser where it collected and trapped the lubricant, eventually causing my compressor to seize. I was told I may have a black gooey mess inside the AC system, possibly trapped between the high pressure port of the compressor and the high pressure side of the orifice tube. I understand all this has to be cleaned out before I replace anything, and was advised on a "firewall forward" replacement of all parts, or I can go with a good system flush which is also expensive.

Would this black death goo also be in my evaporators? Where else would all this goo be trapped, if I have any? I have rear air was well.

Any more directions I can take would be appreciated, bearing in mind that although A/C repairs are expensive I have very limited funds and am wanting to do as much of this myself as possible. I truly thank everyone for readng and responding.

 

The deterioration of the rings is only one source of the 'black powder'. It can be formed from nothing more than the opening of an AC line.
The refrigerant in the lines/hoses/all AC parts changes from a liquid to a gas while it's doing its normal job of cooling.

When the sealed system is opened, the coolant escapes leaving behind a residue/coating throughout the entire system. Remember there is also refrigerant oil in the system.

This coating can and does turn into a substance that looks much like a very fine black pepper, from that point on, it's entire purpose is to make your life miserable. It can and will clog every piece of the normally sealed system.

When a system is not cleaned of these particles, it's a certainty that the system is going to have more trouble/quit working in anywhere from a few minutes to a few days. This is why someone suggested to you that a firewall forward parts replacement be done. Some parts may be in good working order, but it's can be easier to replace and be done with it, than assume it's cleaned out. Depending on each parts price of course.

If you or shop does a really good job of cleaning out the system, a successful repair may happen.
Someone may post that they didn't do all that and the repair worked just fine. Well good for them, most are not so lucky.

Front/rear AC. Depends on your particular vehicle. Some are set up independently, two of almost all parts. Others, to keep original prices down, try to share as much as possible. Owners manual or repair guide should tell you, or call dealership/AC repair shop and ask about yours.

Owner AC repairs- It's often a situation where I think I hear Clint Eastwood asking them "If they feel lucky today".

A suggestion you might consider- Find an AC repair shop that you can feel comfortable with. Speak with someone in charge, a decision maker, be honest with them in explaining your situation.
Ask them if you were to replace all the needed 'hard parts' if they would then agree to do an evac/recharge. They might even be willing to do a primary evac before you break into system, let them recover the refrigerant.

If they are willing, come to an agreed price (in writing) beforehand.
If they aren't willing but you feel you can 'talk' them into it by persisting a little more, DON'T. You don't want a shop doing something they don't really want to do in the first place.

They will not be responsible though if things don't go well. If it doesn't work, if it doesn't work for long. if they detect any leaks when doing the evac/recharge, it will be on your shoulders.

IF YOU TAKE THIS ROUTE, BE CERTAIN YOU DO NOT TURN AC ON FROM THE TIME YOU HAVE MECHANICALS DONE TILL YOU TURN IT OVER TO THE SHOP. Take the AC fuse out so it can't be turned on, don't use defrost, fan, nothing, just to be sure.

As I've advised before, and I certainly understand the low/no funds situation, go without AC for a while till you can secure proper funding.
Let a shop do it all, put the monkey on their back.

But, that's what I'd do. You and Spouse must decide how important AC is to you, and how 'lucky'/confident you feel the repairs.

 

Thanks again, KenB!


Some excellent advice there and I will heed it. My wife primarily uses the Econoline van and the girls ride in the back, but it's mainly for in-town use and here in Souteast Michigan it hasn't gotten stifling hot yet but it's coming. I have another car, my 97 Ford Thunderbird Limited Edition, and the A/C in that hangs icicles. We have no problem piling into it on hot days and riding in comfort.

I still am leaning towards buying the reman AC compressor for the great price of $135 plus $20 shipping, and the local Auto Zone has my accumulator/drier for $57. A local shop will charge me $110 + chemicals for flushing out the front and rear system. However the sequence of events gets tricky here, as my mechanic friend can evac the system for me while I install the compressor, but now that the accumulator has come into play I understand that when a flush is performed the drier has to be replaced. The shop may or not install the parts if I supply them, which leaves my mechanic friend out of the picture. I guess I have to be up-front with the shop and tell them I will have my own correct parts, FS-10 for the compressor and 19C808 for the drier, and see what they tell me. The adventure continues.....

Thanks again!

 

Well, the adventure came to an end and the A/C in my van now blows cold front and rear! Did a compressor change ($98 + shipping - rebuilt from eBay), replaced the accumulator ($57) and had the lines flushed. I spoke with a manager I've come to know at a local garage and I told him I had the compressor and the accumulator already, and if he could just evacuate, flush and recharge my system. He agreed and performed the work, and the labor and materials (chemicals to flush and extra R-134) came out to be just under $200. But now the van blows COLD air at the vents both front and back and we ride around in comfort in the hot weather.

My thanks to everyone here who offered suggestions. I've learned a lot and I appreciate the direction and help.

 

How is the compressor holding up? I'm debating between getting that, or getting a used one that hasn't been rebuilt for ~$55

 

Ubermich,
So far so good, when I got it, it looked brand-new and clean. Here's the link to the completed auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT

I got the exact same compressor that's in the picture, along with the compressor oil. Trust me, if you have problems change the compressor and the accumulator, have it evacuated and flushed and then re-charged. Pay the extra $40 or so for a total rebuild. How long is the used compressor for $55 going to last? When was it built and how long has it been used already? I'd say go for piece of mind. My once-hot van is now very cool!

 

Thanks....