Nissan's truck

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May 10, 2004 | 08:34 PM

#16

jschira

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From: Mansfield, TX USA

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1956MarkII

Then we agree to disagree. We also have a Subaru dealership, and all of their maintenance packages are significantly more expensive than ours. I'd be interested to see how many basic parts of a Camry or Accord (A/C compressor, alternator, starter, etc...) are as cheap or cheaper than those for a Ford Taurus. As for VW, Merkur, Volvo, Infiniti, Lexus. Opel- COME ON! You honestly expect me to believe that their parts prices are anywhere NEAR Ford's? Where are YOU getting THAT? This is UGLY tattooed on my forehead, not STUPID......

I believe that you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1956MarkII

If you gave your domestic vehicle the kind of care that a foreign one requires, it would last a lot longer,too.

Which quite clearly states that the maintenance requirements of foreign cars is greater than domestic. That statement was nonsense and I responded:

Quote:

I've owned numerous foreign cars. Nissan. Lexus. Infiniti. Opel (Caddy Catera), VW, Merkur, Volvo. Routine maintenance is not any more rigorous than on domestic.

With respect to the prices of parts, the only thing that I said was:

Quote:

Routine maintenance parts are cheap and widely available.

I can buy filters, fluids and oil at Walmart or Autozone for all of these cars, which is the only routine maintence items these cars ever needed.

I really do not care what Ford charges for parts versus the rest because with respect to buying routine maintenance parts from a dealer:

Quote:

This is UGLY tattooed on my forehead, not STUPID......

Last edited by jschira; May 10, 2004 at 08:37 PM.

May 10, 2004 | 09:06 PM

#17

jschira

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Joined: Nov 2002

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From: Mansfield, TX USA

From Car & Driver 40,000 mile long-term tests:

Routine maintenance and repair costs (non-warranty):

Honda Element - $323
Honda Insight - $374
Honday Odyssey - $303
Saturn Ion - $297
Honda Civic - $400
VW New Beetle - $536
Chevy Trailblazer - $363
Totyota Camry V-6 - $750
Mitsu Galant - $275
Dodge Ram 1500 - $266
GMC Sierra C3 - $383
Chevy Silvarado - $310
Ford F-150 - $421

May 10, 2004 | 09:22 PM

#18

Delta

Senior User

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 143

Likes: 0

From: Central IN

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschira

When was the last time you only kept a car 40,000 miles?

May 10, 2004 | 10:25 PM

#19

Mil1ion

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Joined: Jan 2008

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One nice feature of the Titan is the "tow/haul" mode for the tranny - wish Ford would include it in their trucks/SUVs. Just my $.02..............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ford Does have this feature, It was one of the main things I checked when I drove these trucks at the Ford Proving Grounds.

May 10, 2004 | 10:48 PM

#20

johnsdiesel

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Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 5,324

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From: Denton,TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschira

What is this supposed to prove? I would expect a full size vehicle to have higher maintenance costs than a compact car. I also don't consider 40K "long-term."

May 10, 2004 | 10:59 PM

#21

ieee_raider

Senior User

Joined: Apr 2004

Posts: 219

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From: Paris, TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steina

One nice feature of the Titan is the "tow/haul" mode for the tranny - wish Ford would include it in their trucks/SUVs. Just my $.02..............

You know that thing called overdrive? Yeah, it's the same thing. Turn overdrive off, and you're magically in tow/haul mode.
I guess Ford doesn't feel the need to "dummy up" their vehicles... like I have a friend who had a Saturn before his F150, and it had a "pass mode" which was the same thing.
Just call it what it is and make the ******* driver learn what it is before they go using it.

May 10, 2004 | 11:02 PM

#22

johnsdiesel

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Joined: Aug 2002

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From: Denton,TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by ieee_raider

Ford is using the tow/haul mode in the Torqshift. It isn't the same as OD off. The transmission downshifts quicker and keeps the torque converter locked up to a much lower speed.

May 10, 2004 | 11:05 PM

#23

ieee_raider

Senior User

Joined: Apr 2004

Posts: 219

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From: Paris, TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsdiesel

Ford is using the tow/haul mode in the Torqshift. It isn't the same as OD off. The transmission downshifts quicker and keeps the torque converter locked up to a much lower speed.

I'm pretty confident that the Ford O/D button does a similar action as the Nissan tow/haul button.
I'm not saying that's the only towing feature the F150 powertrain has, but I'm betting that Nissan's tow/haul button is simply an O/D button.

Last edited by ieee_raider; May 10, 2004 at 11:08 PM.

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May 10, 2004 | 11:08 PM

#24

johnsdiesel

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Joined: Aug 2002

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From: Denton,TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by ieee_raider

Could be, but that's not the only feature in Ford and GM vehicles that have a "tow/haul" mode.

May 11, 2004 | 12:23 AM

#25

Steina

CO River Rat

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 3,209

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From: Lake Havasu City AZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by ieee_raider

Enabling the "tow/haul" mode (in trannies that have this feature) increases line pressure and lets lower gears stay engaged longer. So I guess I'm one of the ******* drivers that knows the difference between this and Ford's OD "off" button.

May 11, 2004 | 12:26 AM

#26

johnsdiesel

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Joined: Aug 2002

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From: Denton,TX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steina

Ford uses it too.

May 11, 2004 | 02:20 AM

#27

seftonm

Senior User

Joined: Nov 2003

Posts: 219

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From: Winnipeg, Manitoba

I did a walkaround of a Titan a while ago, it has some nice features and what I would consider one of the best 1/2 ton engines. Was very impressed until I got inside. Doors had a cheap feel when opening and closing and cheap hard plastic was everywhere on the inside. Fit & finish was nothing special. I usually give imports a look before considering the domestics but the F-150 is superior IMO. No engine and features would make me want to sit inside the Titan on a daily basis.

May 11, 2004 | 05:44 AM

#28

jschira

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Joined: Nov 2002

Posts: 4,788

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From: Mansfield, TX USA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta

When was the last time you only kept a car 40,000 miles?

Every car that I have owned. I trade often.

May 11, 2004 | 05:50 AM

#29

jschira

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Joined: Nov 2002

Posts: 4,788

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From: Mansfield, TX USA

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsdiesel

What is this supposed to prove?

The statement was that foreign cars require more frequent maintenance than domestic. That has not been my experience. My experience is that the service intervals and service items are about the same on domestic and foreign cars. C&D's experience is that foreign cars generally are not more expensive to maintain, at least not in the first 2-3 years of ownership.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsdiesel

I would expect a full size vehicle to have higher maintenance costs than a compact car.

If you read the list, you will see that domestic full-sized pickups actually cost slightly less to maintain then some foreign compacts

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsdiesel

I also don't consider 40K "long-term."

It may not be for an owner, but it is for a magazine test. You need to put the 40K in context.

To address the original poster, yes, I believe you if you say your Subaru dealership charges more for an oil change, or a tune-up or a brake job than your Ford dealership. Economies of scale. I bet your Ford dealership sells and services 4-5 times as many Fords as your Subaru dealership sells and services Subarus.

Where I disagree is your statement that Subarus require more frequent maintenance than Fords and that is the reason Subarus (or Hondas or Toyotas) have a better reliability record.

Last edited by jschira; May 11, 2004 at 05:54 AM.

May 11, 2004 | 10:01 AM

#30

1956MarkII

Lead Driver

Joined: Apr 2002

Posts: 7,746

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From: Tampa Bay, FL USA

Someone needs to re-read my posts. Nowhere did I state that foreign cars require more frequent maintenance, and I don't know how you could read that into my statements. The point I was trying to make is that foreign cars require basic parts (such as tie-rod ends) to be replaced under their scheduled maintenance packages, and that foreign parts are more expensive. "Economies of scale" don't work here; our Subaru dealership is number one in sales in North America, and has 4 to 5 times the customers of our Ford dealership. And their parts and service are still more expensive than ours.

Thank you for the list from Car and Driver- you just helped me make my point. The four most-expensive vehicles to maintain, in descending order: 1) Toyota Camry 2) VW New Beetle 3) Ford F-150 4) Honda Civic. 3 of the 4 most expensive vehicles to maintain were so-called "economy" imports; the fourth is a full-sized pickup truck with larger tires, brake rotors and pads, etc... I would expect that to cost more to maintain than 4-cylinder econoboxes.

And I'm with Steina: O/D on-off and tow-haul mode switches are NOT the same thing. Tow-haul mode is only currently available on the 6.0 PSD.

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