Burn! Burn! Burn!

 

I appreciate your opinions. And even more, I appreciate others recognizing what seems to be such a common sense issue. Regarding what defines 'pornography', that is not hard to do, just browse around a bit and balance out what you find. Sources that lean to the left (politically and ideologically) will not regard explicitly sexual situations as pornography. Yet when I was a young adult I would find the same type of literature behind the 'X-Rated' counter at a bookstore. So for me, the definition hasn't changed, people have.

There is no underlying agenda or politics driving me (Tim Lankin, Operative word 'adolescent'?)though I am what would be considered a religious person. I simply do not think it is time for kids who are barely out of the eleven age group to have access to such sexually explicit material. Whatever direction my protest goes, whatever religious connotations one may attach, whatever political ramifications it may have, will be outside of my 'world'. I am not talking to newspapers or media and am definitely NOT interested in 15 minutes of fame. I am interested in talking to people though, such as parents of the school or to you guys.

As a side note, there are twenty-four pages in Forever that I have a problem with, not just a couple scenes.

 

Would it be wrong to keep the book in the library...but keep it behind the librarian's desk? That way the student would have to ask for it, and I don't know how many of them would want to look the librarian in the eye to do so.

MR

 

Here's another couple of questions.
1. What is the age range served by the school? You mention over 11 so I'm guessing 12 --13 middle school.

2. Why is the book in the library? Is there a class or teacher that has it on a required reading list? Or is it there as general book stock?

 

No, I don't accept that the book could/should be placed behind the librarians desk, it doesn't belong in the middle school library. Why? Refer back to my original post: How can pornography can be defended either as intellectual material or material that promotes one’s intelligence? It just doesn’t jive. Protecting such material as belonging in a children’s library DOES smack of politics, the kid’s be damned.

Why is the book in the library? Your guess is as good as mine. Given the thousands of book in any library, it would be easy for anyone to assume a ‘children’s author’ has good material without actually reading the book. Something that I regard as even a bigger mistake than the book being there in the first place, is that from what I hear (locally), it was removed before and someone stuck it back in there. If so, THAT is going to be trouble for someone.

Another side note: The author recommends this book NOT be placed in a childrens library (or section of the library.)

 

I'm a firm believer that censorship is a bad thing. That being said, I also believe that there are cavaets to my belief. Common sense should apply when it comes to exposing kids to sexually explicit material. Middle School is up to, what, 12-13 years old? Why on earth would a book containing sexually explicit language be found in their library in the first place?
Doesn't the school's librarian make sure that only age-appropriate material is on the shelves? The author's own website says that the book should be classified as "Young Adult" because of its content. Sounds to me that the librarian is asleep at the wheel.

 

I remember being in gradeschool and I found some **** in our library. I think I had that book checked out all year. Lol.

 

I read Forever when I was in Jr. High.... We cant hide sex from our kids forever, there was nothing in that book in hindsight that I thought was too riske
I too have a 13 year old son that has discovered girls, we have had the talk....
I have prepared with what he needs to do to be responsible and all we can hope for is that they listen....
Usually they already know more than you think....
Judy Blume wrote all her books to prepare the tweenies for the birds and bees, and I bet half the women on this sight have read "Are you there God its me Margaret" It was good to read about the changes we go through without having to be embarrassed by our parents...
Censorship is wrong, Parenting is right...
If your against the book, dont let your daughter read it, but dont take the option away from everyone else... If the parents are paying attention to their kids and what they do, then they can make informed decisions. I know a lot of people dont agree with me on this issue, but once you start taking books away we heading down a really bad road...
IMHO

 

well put!

I think people who wait for their daughters or sons to ask questions, and then don't expect it until they are 16, are sticking their heads in the sand. And anyone who believes their child is more likely to ask their parents, rather than a friend/older sibling/counselor/etc, is in denial. This book sounds like a decent way for young people (especially in MIDDLE SCHOOL) to be informed about a subject that almost everyone has a problem discussing.

By the way, the school's public library is probably NOT where your child is going to learn about sex. The way they are going to get their information is from TV and movies, magazines, etc that you ALREADY have in your house, or they have access to at a friend's house.

However, I agree, that book should not be on the general access shelves in a middle school library available for anyone. By the way, it's just possible a teacher or administrator ordered the book through the library for research, and the library staff blindly catalogued it and put it on the shelf without ever reading it. Chances are, it's not supposed to be there anyway.

One other thought - the definition of "pornography" should be any explicit images and/or words that are meant to incite lust for self-gratification. Sexually explicit images and/or words (and this particular book doesn't sound like it has explicit pictures) that are used for EDUCATION should be excempt from the "porno" label. But, that's just MY opinion!

 

I don't think that having objectionable books on the shelves of a Junior High Library gives concerned parents ANY option. As is typical in public schools now, the parent is the last to find out what they want to teach our kids. For example, I'm a firm believer that programs such as Quest and DARE do more to encourage drug use than prevent it. (A meta-analysis done on DARE and other anti-drug programs have shown that they don't work, BTW), but schools still spent well over $700Million on DARE. I attended the "parent version" of Quest because there was such an uproar when it was put into the curriculum without any advanced discussion. What I saw was a bunch of garbage. The program has zero credibility right off the bat because it tries to equate cigarette smoking with hard drug usage. Any kid older than 10 knows that's a ridiculous assertion to make. It goes on to desensitize them to hard drugs. I don't know about your Middle Schools, but at my kid's school, the only exposure they have to crack was from Quest and DARE....but I digress.....

 

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you on the DARE issue... but the book in question hardly falls under ****...
Does anyone really think that the school system would put such questionable reading material in the school library in our litigious society? I doubt it...
I will let MY children read all of Judy Blume's books.. I find nothing wrong with them... This is middle school material, there is nothing in her books that tweenies do not already know.

But dont get me wrong I totally see your point.... There is so much going on in middle school that I bet a lot of parents do not realize. I have had conversations with my 13 year old son about all the "stoners" at his school. he is totally aware of what is going on around him. So because of this do I pull him out? and then what.. private school? I have a bunch of friends that all went to catholic schools and they could tell stories that would knock your socks off.
I just feel the more we hide from our kids the more curious they will get.. and in saying that I dont mean that we should show them **** and take this out of context.. there was a thread that touched upon this awhile ago and someone rebutted me with that point... there are limits to everything.
But no one seems to mention, is think back to when you were a teenager and better yet, there are teenagers on this site daily, I wonder how many of them really share what they really know about life with their parents...
How many of us went to our parents and asked the real questions about sex? I bet not many. None of us want to admit our children are reaching adulthood or the innocent begining of it. My son even shared with me that he had kissed a girl and I had to hold back...I dont want to spoil the fact that he even trusted me enough to share that.. it wont always be that way, there will come a day he wont...
They start sex education in 6th grade, but they dont teach you the emotional ramifications that come with sex, all the other things that go through your mind when you decide to embark on that chapter...Its real easy to make it all mechanical but we all know its not that easy, and dont forget your peers making it even worse. All "Forever" did was address these very points, girls and boys are so different and no one teaches us that when we are young... you had to become a adult to read Men are from Mars....
wow did I digress?

 

Let's bring things back to my original points: How can one justify pornography as defensable for intellectual development? You can't. So what those of you who find yourselves in that postion must do is to redefine pornography. What I reject also is the defense that 'once people start to censor books, they are on a downward spiral' or something to that effect. That is assumption, and I think a bad one. Like todays society is going to have huge pile of books burning outside of the public library. C'mon.

Quality education material is what should be on the table being defended, not some trash novel, pornography or not.

 

That really depends on what your definition is of "****"
"Forever" and "The Story of O" are 2 ends of the spectrum
I really didnt mean to come across as censorship turning into a book burning, I personally dont think "the" book can be considered ****...

 

Assuming you speak as one who has read it...I dare you to approach this forum with portions of the book and let's see if it is acceptable, even in a 'public forum', to describe in intimate details the sexual acts of two teenagers having intercourse. This should be interesting...

 

This is only "on topic" in so far as it is the words of the author in question. It doesn't address the particular book mentioned in this thread, but it does address book banning in general. Again from the author herself, Judy Blume.

The link -> http://www.judyblume.com/censors.html

The author's words -> When I began to write, thirty years ago, I didn't know if anyone would publish my books, but I wasn't afraid to write them. I was lucky. I found an editor and publisher who were willing to take a chance. They encouraged me. I was never told what I couldn't write. I felt only that I had to write the most honest books I could. It never occurred to me, at the time, that what I was writing was controversial. Much of it grew out of my own feelings and concerns when I was young.

Communism?
There were few challenges to my books then, although I remember the night a woman phoned, asking if I had written Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. When I replied that I had, she called me a Communist and slammed down the phone. I never did figure out if she equated Communism with menstruation or religion, the two major concerns in 12 year old Margaret's life.

But in 1980, the censors crawled out of the woodwork, seemingly overnight, organized and determined. Not only would they decide what their children could read, but what all children could read. Challenges to books quadrupled within months, and we'll never know how many teachers, school librarians and principals quietly removed books to avoid trouble.

Fear
I believe that censorship grows out of fear, and because fear is contagious, some parents are easily swayed. Book banning satisfies their need to feel in control of their children's lives. This fear is often disguised as moral outrage. They want to believe that if their children don't read about it, their children won't know about it. And if they don't know about it, it won't happen.

Today, it's not only language and sexuality (the usual reasons given for banning my books) that will land a book on the censors' hit list. It's Satanism, New Age-ism and a hundred other isms, some of which would make you laugh if the implications weren't so serious. Books that make kids laugh often come under suspicion; so do books that encourage kids to think, or question authority; books that don't hit the reader over the head with moral lessons are considered dangerous.

Censors don't want children exposed to ideas different from their own. If every individual with an agenda had his/her way, the shelves in the school library would be close to empty. I wish the censors could read the letters kids write.

Dear Judy,
I don't know where I stand in the world. I don't know who I am. That's why I read, to find myself.
Elizabeth, age 13

But it's not just the books under fire now that worry me. It is the books that will never be written. The books that will never be read. And all due to the fear of censorship. As always, young readers will be the real losers.
-------------------------

Just food for thought.