-EDIT- Split from 2x4 or 2x6 shop thread. -Admin

Don't forget the emergency generation connection in the garage too, at least when everyone elses power is out you can be out there working on something.

 

This emergency generation connection you speak of: Is this an outside electrical fitting of some sort that a generator is fed into? Sounds pretty trick.

 

It is most likely a mid size generaltor hard wired into the home electricaL system with a transfer switch to keep the power from the generator from feeding back into the power company's lines when the power comes back on.

 

Go to the Northern Hydraulic site and see the generator hookup stuff they carry. I think it is www.northern-online.com -

 

Generator option - you can do it with a 3500 watt and will give you lights and a few other things. Go bigger and you'll get more. There are gen switches available but I just used them for reference, some of those features are nice but you can get more in a do-it-yourself package. Put in an extra 60 or 100 amp panel, put a double throw breaker in 30 to 60 amp depending on your generator and loads, this breaks the power feed back to the utility co and also allows the gen feed to work. Put the important things on the emergency panel side and when the power goes out you throw the double throw, determine what you want to run based upon your generators capabilities and leave those breakers on - turn the rest in the emergency panel off, plug in and start the generator at the outside location. Whalla - lights first I guess. Then you can randomly change breakers as needed based upon what you are running, i.e. the TV, Microwave, Freezer, Sump Pump, Furnace Fan etc etc. Again your only limitation is the generator size and what is in the panel. You have to figure out what kind of amps you will be drawing on each circuit and keep a record if need be so you don't overload and kill the engine on the generator, but that isn't real difficult to get a handle on. Leave something on that isn't hooked to the emergency power and when the utility has its stuff back in order that will come on. Wait a few minutes to make sure they aren't going to loose power again and then shut the generator down, put the double throw breaker back to its normal run positions and turn on the breakers you didn't need. Doesn't take long on either end and it is an economical solution, costs about the same or less than the pre-packaged panels but gives you the ability to have more control over extra circuits. Unless you have the bucks to do an entire auto package that will switch and check it self weekly and runs on LP or Nat Gas.

 

If you do not have a main breaker or disconnect of any kind between your main panel and meter do not put a generator on the line unless you are qualified to pull/install a hot meter or are willing to go to the lengths necessary to install an emergency panel that will not backfeed. Always verify the main is open (open means in the off position) or unplugged before turning on the generator. We do not want any dead linemen.

A 3500 watt generator will not handle the load of "the TV, Microwave, Freezer, Sump Pump, Furnace Fan" simultaneously. You will need at the least a 5000 watt gen to handel the spikes and even that is tight. You can not apply more than 80% rated load to a breaker so you have to consider that when doing load calculations. If you do the math a 3500 watt will not be sufficient for an average home but can be done. Just use some common sense. Like if you have an electric water heater turn the breaker off but turn it on when you go to sleep so there is hot water in the morning, just remember to turn it back off when things start being turned back on. Your computers should have a UPS to handel any surges from a generator, especially a cheap one.


As for connecting a gen to the panel I prefer to install a plug rated the same as the 220v outlet on the gen and wire that to the proper sized breaker in the panel. Use a male to male cord with the proper size wire to connect the gen to the plug to feed the panel. Just remember to make sure the mains are off first.

 

Its a really good idea to use a Transfer Switch for hooking your generator up to your utility fed home or shop, these are made for that purpose and unless your knowldgable in doing otherwise this would be your best and safest option.

NEVER, EVER make a male to male cord...they dont make male to male cords for a reason!!!! It only takes one mistake to end someones life.

 

A double throw breaker does the same as a transfer switch, it connects one and disconnects the other at the same time and if it ever failed wouldn't allow any feed in either direction. The dt breaker just allows a feed from the gen or from the primary panel. Good suggestion on the "no 2 male ends", we all know what happens when they get together. The outdoor box on the do it yourself system is harder to find but if you look you can find a weather resistant box with the mail connector in it to accept the female end of the gen cord. If you are going to do the elec yourself with the transfer switch setup, you can do the other custom setup without a problem. Otherwise get an electrician involved.

 

I am an electrician and have a done male to male cords for generators. It is a cost efficient way to connect the generator as long as the person has a bit of common sense. If you want to hard wire everything and throw in a transfer switch expect to pay much more. I do not expect your aveage home owner to such a job. If not, your other alliterative to to hard wire it every time you want to use it. If you forget to turn off the generator then you put the linemen at risk when you close the main while the generator is running.

Really? I guess some people are just stupid. Like the ones who don't kill the main and kill/injure linemen. When what gets together?

Do you propose someone leaves a generator hardwired to the panel at all times? I am speaking of a portable one. A cord out of the panel with a male cap is fine but it poses the same risk as a male to male cord, a worse one, really. A Male plug is fine but you are still at risk. No matter how you analyze it unless it is done with a transfer switch and is wired by a qualified electrician you are at somewhat of a risk if you do not use common sense.


If I were to provide backup power for a client I would insist on a transfer switch but if it were a friend I would go with a cheaper alliterative. A portable generator would not even be discussed with a client but I do primarily commercial and industrial work. For some reason I feel this guy does not want to spend thousands.

 

again jad, someone would only have to make a mistake once. They dont make them this way for a very good reason!

You say your a electrician, where is it in the NEC that there is an exemption for hooking up a generator with this configuration? humm.....

 

I'm not sure if you guys are on my case or each others. If you are on mine - I have a fairly knowlegable back ground in electrical stuff, I won't argue with an electrician though. But the system I am talking about was actually worked out between an electrical engineer an electrician and myself. The generator is portable (had it before I built the house) uses a male/female cord to connect it to a weather resistant box outside. Panel A is a 200 amp service, Panel B is 200 amp off peak and Panel C is a 60 amp box which is the emergency panel. Panel A and B have separate meters and feeds to them from the transformer. Panel C is fed from Panel A with a 60 amp breaker into the double throw breaker in Panel C, the other side of this double throw breaker goes out to the gen connection. When the double throw breaker is in one position it only accepts power from Panel A and in the other it only accepts power from the generator. NEVER EVER BOTH AT THE SAME TIME NOR CAN IT BACK FEED EMERGENCY POWER BACK INTO THE MAIN SERVICE...... The things I wanted to be able to put on emergency power go in Panel C, when I have to use the emergency power, I throw the double throw breaker the opposite direction, select the circuits I want power to in Panel C (limited to the generators capabilities) and shut the rest off. If I need to supply power to other circuits in Panel C, I shut one or more off and turn on one or two more based upon the calculated load and then start the generator. I have 11 circuits between the garage and house that I can randomly supply power to with blanks spaces for future. You only get 4 to 6 on a transfer switch unless you buy 2 or go commercial. I spent $250 to hook the entire thing up less the generator. Most importantly - it passed the required electrical inspections with no problems.

 

no, 04 I'm not on your case at all...your set-up sounds like it is done safe and proper. I was just concerned about jad1097, that insists its OK to make male to male cords if you use common sense, but common sense and male to male cords dont belong in the same sentance together. I would only hope that no one on this board ever makes one of these illegal, dangerous cords and then someone gets fried trying to save a few bucks....

 

I just spent an hour digging through the 2002 NEC. Some of you whom are more knowledge than I please point out to me where it is illegal to do so. Please quote the exact article.

 

Check out article 406.6(B)

 

For those of us that don't have a current copy of the NEC could you quote the passage and the headings?

-EDIT- From what I have seen on the web the code makers are struggling with this very same concept and how to plug in generating equipment.

The second sentence of the proposed 406.6B is being removed. I don't know what it will look like when done.