Hv oil pump?
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Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2003
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Hv oil pump?
Is it possible to run into any problems by installing a HV oil pump and staying with your stock pan?Also I put in a HV pump
and had about 120 miles on it when my dist. gear pin sheared.
When I pulled the dist. I checked for any binding by turning the
oil pump with a quarter inch drive socket and driver handle.It seemed to spin fine.I talked to a couple of guy's that said the
FE's were kind of famous for breaking gear pins.I am hoping
that this is true and the 28 yr. old pin was just stressed and
finally gave up because of its age and not the new pump.
and had about 120 miles on it when my dist. gear pin sheared.
When I pulled the dist. I checked for any binding by turning the
oil pump with a quarter inch drive socket and driver handle.It seemed to spin fine.I talked to a couple of guy's that said the
FE's were kind of famous for breaking gear pins.I am hoping
that this is true and the 28 yr. old pin was just stressed and
finally gave up because of its age and not the new pump.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 1
From: Littleton, CO
If you did the oil mods to the motor and restricted the flow to the heads, you should be ok. I understand the the HV pump takes a little more to turn it than the stock unit, so a 28 year old pin sheering off would kind of make sence.
--Mike
--Mike
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
I have sheared a few pins. I now double pin my dizzy. I cross drill a second hole and install a second pin. No more breakage.
My race car has never broke a pin, but it runs full bore, then off. On the street you get ALOT more on-off, on-off. It tends to work a bit more on that little roll pin. It gets worse with thicker oil.
Larry
My race car has never broke a pin, but it runs full bore, then off. On the street you get ALOT more on-off, on-off. It tends to work a bit more on that little roll pin. It gets worse with thicker oil.
Larry
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Freshman User
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Thanks for the replies.I am running 10w40 and the truck does
about 3300 rpm at 70 mph.I was wondering if it was possible
while running steady at that rpm if it could pump the sump dry.
If this is possible could you see any indication of pumping air
on a mechanical gauge?
about 3300 rpm at 70 mph.I was wondering if it was possible
while running steady at that rpm if it could pump the sump dry.
If this is possible could you see any indication of pumping air
on a mechanical gauge?
New User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 9
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"A high volume pump may suck the pan dry". Lordy, I even heard Chuck on "Horsepower TV" repeat that one. Ain't true. Don't believe me [and why should you]? Ask Melling, the people who make the pumps.
http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/view.asp?id=12
It's true that it takes more power to move more oil, but only maybe 1 or 2 horses.
Get yourself a good oil pump drive shaft, like one from Milodon or ARP. They're only about $20.
http://www.melling.com/support/bulletins/view.asp?id=12
It's true that it takes more power to move more oil, but only maybe 1 or 2 horses.
Get yourself a good oil pump drive shaft, like one from Milodon or ARP. They're only about $20.
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Freshman User
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Thank's for the Melling link Coupedeville. It made for some interesting reading.As far as the intermediate shaft I installed
an ARP shaft when I did the pump.Thank's anyway for the heads
up.
an ARP shaft when I did the pump.Thank's anyway for the heads
up.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
As mentioned above. I recently twisted a Milodon shaft. $225 towing bill. hopefully, that's the worst of the damage.
I now have an ARP.
I now have an ARP.
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 123
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From: North Carolina
you can still get the shaft from FORD Racing, they list it for the 427 or 428. it is a chrome molly unit very tough. I also found my widnage tray PN# C9ZZ-6687-A for the oil pan there to. keeps the oil in the pan and not flying around inside the block.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,232
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From: Colville, Washington
One "OOPS" on the Melling site. The FE does not send oil to the heads thru the lifters--they use a separate oil passage thru the block and heads into the rocker arm assy. I have personally pumped my pan empty after a long run at 3000+rpm in my previous engine-390. The drainbacks were clear and restrictors were in place.FWIW
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2002
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I have to ask... Why run a HV pump....? Are you turning 7000RPM...? Do the oiling mods and run a standard pump.... I could see if you've had a history of oil related engine failures but otherwise I don't know if it's worth the potential problems.... What problems...?
Pin failure and dist gear failure.....
I know most people here will disagree with me but after all the problems I had with the above mentioned on my last motor because of a HV pump....I'm not going to use one in my current build...
Pin failure and dist gear failure.....
I know most people here will disagree with me but after all the problems I had with the above mentioned on my last motor because of a HV pump....I'm not going to use one in my current build...
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 123
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From: North Carolina
I have made the oil mods to my truck and it is runnig great. have you checked the dist against anoter one to see if the bearings are dragging? I did twist out my oil pump drive shaft before the mods. thats what made me do the mods. what I found was some old metal shavings that came from the oil by pass spring houseing in the pump had jamed the rotor. most likely they had been there all along and when I tured it up tight they came out. basically it killed it self. any way so far mine is doing very well. the reason you need to do these mods is to keep more oil on the crank shaft at high RPMs. that is the weak point of the FE.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,130
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From: Brea CA
I don't care what Melling says, I use their HV pump and HAVE pumped the pan dry while going thru the traps so says the oil pressure gauge. You need a deeper pan with baffles or trap doors to keep the oil under the pickup so it don't suck air, at least put an extra quart in it.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 794
Likes: 1
From: Portland, OR
YES! Don't care what melling says a HV pump, stock pan and no windage tray will suck a pan dry. I've seen atleast half a dozen small block chev's with spun front mains and a HV pump/stock pan of death combo. Everybody I know runs a stock volume pump with their FE's except me. The builder of my 390 runs a 7000+ rpm 428 in his 67 stang with a stock pump and a T-pan. I ran the HV pump because I lug the hell out of my motor starting off with trailers and offroad and, my motor doesn't go over 4500 and I have a windage tray. I like 30 PSI hot oil pressure @ 500 RPM.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 123
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From: North Carolina
averagef250 and bb are right. you MUST use a bigger oil pan. the problem I have is the oil pan is only 1 1/2 IN from the engine cradle. so my fix was to cut out the back part of the pan and add on to the length. I now have a seven quart pan. I took the idea from a book I have. FORD PERFORMANCE by Pat ganahl. page 121 under the clevland famliy pic #18. it's for the old Ford Pantera's. the theroy is the same, if you can't go down go back. but you got to put in the trap door or all the oil will run to the back of the pan when you punch it. I shold have mentioned this in my first posting. I got so wrapped up in why my first pump failed, I forgot to. that was my human side coming out. sorry guy's.