copper flakes in engine
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
copper flakes in engine
I found some copper flakes, more like little solid puddles of fine copper material mixed with oil where depressions are in the head and in the bottom of the pan. I'm guessing this engine has about 20K on it. The lifters were all concaved and worn, cylinder bore taper and heads look great. As far as I know, the only copper in an engine comes from bearings. Is this normal to find these copper flakes? Should I take a main bearing cap off and inspect? I was just planning on a cam (lifters. springs, oil pump) install but you know, you find other things wrong and you fix them now when you have the engine out or later when youre along the road 300 miles from home. Is there anything else I should take a look at while I have it stripped to a short block?
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
From: atl
well man, copper is never a good sign. i would do a compression check to see how the rings are doing before you rip it apart. if that checks out, the very least i would do is check all the bearings, and consider replacing them. you may wind up lucky and just be able to replace the bearings. also make sure you check to make sure something isn't clogging the oil pickup, any oil passages, and check the pump. best of luck to ya
mike
mike
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 3
From: So Cal
Yeah copper is not good. Usually it is from bearings but could also be bronze bushings and gears. Some engines use bronze in the distributor bushing and drive gear. Some have it in the timing set or oil pump drive. Some valve guides are bronze bushed.
If your lifters are already worn at 20K you got major problems. I wonder if the oil pump is not putting out sufficient volume/pressure which is causing the premature wear?
Depending on the engine, you may be able to pull the pump without dropping the pan. You can also inspect the distributor drive shaft and maybe the bushing and gear pretty easy too.
If none of thse show you problem then I would drop the pan and look at some bearings.
Good Luck,
Jim Henderson
If your lifters are already worn at 20K you got major problems. I wonder if the oil pump is not putting out sufficient volume/pressure which is causing the premature wear?
Depending on the engine, you may be able to pull the pump without dropping the pan. You can also inspect the distributor drive shaft and maybe the bushing and gear pretty easy too.
If none of thse show you problem then I would drop the pan and look at some bearings.
Good Luck,
Jim Henderson
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Thanks guys. I have the engine out as I am in the middle of a swap. My oil pressure was fine and compression was 125 in each cyl. I have a feeling when the engine was rebuilt, someone tried to save a few $ by reusing the cam, lifters and timing set. The chain was so loose I could almost jump a tooth by using my fingers. I think the lifters wore down fast (probably not put back in the origional locations) and that sent particles throughout the oil system. I wasn't planning on this but after reading your comments, I'll be going to the machine shop for a new shortblock. At least I'll have peace of mind. I do have a new oil pump, cam, lifters, timing set. Is there anything else I should consider?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 3
From: So Cal
What year and engine you have? 125 pressure sounds a little low but depends on engine.
Swapping lifters around is really bad. Each lifter mates to it's cam lobe and if you use it on a different one, then bad things can happen.
Since you are getting a new short block, I would look at making sure the heads are absolutely clean, no particles stuck in the rockers, clean valve guides etc.
Since the heads are off, now would be a good time for a good 3 angle(or do they do more now?) valve job and maybe even new or knurled valve guides. Maybe new springs to match your cam.
All kinds of options depending on what ya want to do and how much money ya got.
Good Luck,
Jim Henderson
Swapping lifters around is really bad. Each lifter mates to it's cam lobe and if you use it on a different one, then bad things can happen.
Since you are getting a new short block, I would look at making sure the heads are absolutely clean, no particles stuck in the rockers, clean valve guides etc.
Since the heads are off, now would be a good time for a good 3 angle(or do they do more now?) valve job and maybe even new or knurled valve guides. Maybe new springs to match your cam.
All kinds of options depending on what ya want to do and how much money ya got.
Good Luck,
Jim Henderson
Last edited by jim henderson; Mar 2, 2004 at 03:18 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Thanks Jim, thats a good point about the heads. I was on the line about whether I should have them done but I bet they are full of this debris so I think I'll have them tanked and done as well. I do have new valve springs , retainers & locks. This started out as a 460 swap from my old 400 in a 79 F250 4X4 supercab. I bought L&L headers, swap mounts, rear sump oil pan. Now it looks like more $ for the shortblock but if I can get this thing together before gas prices hit $2.00 gal I might have a chance to drive it.
Also the dist. gear was not bronze and the valve guides mic out .001 over the valve stems so this copper crap must be from the bearings.
Also the dist. gear was not bronze and the valve guides mic out .001 over the valve stems so this copper crap must be from the bearings.
