Yes, I do have experience with the retailing end of tool sales. And I know that Sears does not purchase tools from that are designed to break. Plain and simple.

They pick tools that are just cheap enough that they feel they can take the majority of use and abuse from the average joe. Now statisticly speaking, a percentage of tools from any manufacturer will fail; a quantative value definately can be placed on it. And yes, their failure rate may (or may not) be be higher than comparable selling brands. But the acceptance of a cheaper tool to be sold (and higher failure rates) is nothing more than an attempt to go with the lowest bidder, not to sucker the average person to come in and go on a shopping spree while he is replacing a screwdriver.

Sears also has their own testing facilities where they test the tools themeslves, independant from the manufacturer. Tons of tools leave there everyday that did not pass their testing. If they wanted tools to fail, they would not have prohibited these tools from going to market.

But most of this arguement is moot anyway. The 2 most common tools replaced are screwdrivers which broke while being used as a prybar, and hand (chrome)sockets which shattered while being used on an impact wrench. A close third would be pliers that had the rubber insulation tear off. Yea, the occasional ratchet breaks down as well (the plastic gear inside strips), but that is not an intentional act. An intentional act would be 9 of 10 wrenches having a metal gear, but 1 in 10 has a plastic. So they saved some money on a plastic gear. Doesn't make much difference to most people anyways, since if it DOES strip they get a replacement anyways. When you go in, there isn't a sign that says "Replacement ratchet ONLY with purchase of 50 dollars or more." Every store in every industry has impulse items for 1st time and repeak customers.

I guess I mean to say that customer with a broken wrench won't come back to the store any sooner than a satisfied one with a wrench that haven't failed.

It's not what you say is hard to understand, it's just that I won't agree with it.

 

And for the sake of ending the discussion of this disagreement (as we know it will never be solved ), I'll make this my last post in this now atrociously-offtopic thread

 

And I do know that Sears purchases tools that are designed to break. Plain and simple.

I guess that means we disagree.

I see your experience is in retailing, but not in manufacturing specifying or purchasing.

I have had many Sears tools break under perfectly reasonable stresses, without any cheaters, or impact wrenches, or anything out of the ordinary. I have not had one of their screwdrivers fail while using them as prybars. I have had several of them fail while driving a screw. I had a pair of arc joint pliers shatter in my hand with a lot of pain resulting from it. Sears replaced the pliers but they couldn't replace my bloody fingernails that took time to heal. The real funny thing is that of all the tools that I have of many different brands ONLY THE SEARS CRAFTSMAN TOOLS HAVE EVER FAILED... Figure on that one for a while! Not a single failure of any other tool brand except for one China tool socket that I inherited from somewhere, but many Craftsman tools failed.

And FYI the craftsman flare nut wrenches I have are JUNK!

 

Points all well taken. Eric,down boy. You were right( I guess) about the s/k's.I saw one catalog showing them made in france but everywhere else I see made in USA.I ordered them today.Thanks.

 

Well, did you guys deside who could pee the farthest? I have to report in. I've had more NAPA wrenches, sockets fail then Craftsman. When my 1/2" break-over bar gave up they didn't want to replace it too bad, and I've been a customer for over 30 years.

In the mid '70's I had an XKE, TR3 and a couple of other cars they didn't like. They always made fun of me then. Called them "rice burners" and other such names. You could take your fingers and run them down the edges of an American made vehicle THEN and get cut, quality was so poor. Now about 60% of their sales is in some way connected to a foreign auto. Those foreign auto. mfg. forced the USA to get competitive. We ought to be thankful or we'd still be driving around in Pinto's and Vega"s!!

It's all the nature of our economy. Everyone wants money accumulating in their IRA, 401K or mutual fund. It's all about money. We whine when the price of fuel goes up, but happy when OUR stock price goes up. One feeds the other!

I have a 3/4" drive set made overseas I purchased on the internet (made in a country far, far away) that I intended to use in situations where they'd break. Used cheaters and hammers and they won't give up. What's that say about QC?

 

Hey I liked Pinto's

It is pretty hard to break the big stuff, I have three sets of impact sockets, a 1/2" impact extension set, and big combo wrenches that were made in that faraway land that have not broken yet.

I have a 1/2" JC Penney breaker bar that is bent slightly from a cheater bar that was given to me that is still bent slightly but has not bent any more.

I have Proto, Mac, Wizard, Fuller, Husky, SK, Wardmaster, Armstrong, Craftsman, Crescent, Lisle, KD, Bondus, Stanley, Great Neck, no name, Globemaster, and other tools. I only use the no-name stuff for light work and to take somewhere to work on something off-site where the buddy I am helping might not have any tools or lots of tools, but the others get used heavily. Tools from the USA, Japan, India, and China! Some of these tools were purchased at auto parts stores for a specific job as needed. Others were purchased in tool stores. The ONLY ones that have broken were Craftsman tools. I finally got tired of taking them back and just replaced them with other brands as they broke. Some Craftsman tools have given great service, at least those made b4 1970.

I have never purchased any tools from NAPA so I don't know about them.

Being built in a faraway land does not mean they don't have QC

 

Eric,
I see you're from the K.C. area. You ever been to the Claycomo Ford plant? I use to work for a co. that provided in-house training there. Had many opportunities to see the various manufactoring areas. The most amazing to me was where they mount the tires! We did the same thing at the old Leeds and Fairfax GM plants and Delco in Olathe. Those plants are a lesson in themselves.

 

I have been in the Clacomo plant three times back in the 70's. I helped with the design of some of the manufacturing communication subsystems in the new Fairfax plant. I haven't been in the plant since it became operational tho. I have spent a number of hours in the Delco plant in Olathe designing machinery for them as well as troubleshooting existing systems. I provided in house industrial hydraulics training for many companies in the midwest. I also provided in house industrial control system training for a few companies.

 

I don't want to step into the middle of a contest but, yes, like everything else, flare-nut wrenches have their place. Mostly on brake lines. They put a more even torque on the hollow nuts.

As for your contest here, I have been using and abusing Craftsman tools for over 25 years and I can count the tools that I've had to return on one hand. Mostly ratchets from hamerring on them. I have found that Snap-on wrenches have more flex to them ( which I don't like), Matco is just plain crap....I don't trust anything made in China, broke too many of those. I think that each company makes good tools and you have to evaluate them all on an individual basis.

 

That flex comes from improper heat treatment. That is one of the areas that takes very careful QC. It is also the most common cause of failure in tools. Some of the other main ones are steel defects, machining errors that produce stress risers, and even that pesky chrome plating that can cause hydrogen embrittlement. Then of course you can have improper tolerances that produce abnormal stresses on the tool and fastener.

My flare nut wrenches have too much flex so they expand and loose their grip on those hollow nuts. I used to take wrenches back that were like that but the clerks in dept stores would refuse to replace them because they couldn't see or feel any problem. I have found if you get a tool like that in a tool store the clerks have a better understanding of tools and will replace a defective tool.

 

Just for clarity's sake, since I was curious myself about the plastic direction reverser in the craftsman ratchet - I took one of their ratchets apart and found the only plastic component was the reversing lever itself - its a single piece that also makes up the center post the cam is attached to - when the lever is reveresed it moves the cam accross a spring loaded pin that comes out of the handle to change directions - the cam gear (or whatever you would call it) simply changes positions due to the plastic piece, and when the ratchet is in use, the plastic piece does not carry a load. Although I would question the durability of the metal pin that comes out of the handle which the cam wedges against, this bears most of the torque applied to the socket. I should post pictures of a dissassembled craftsman ratchet just because. If sears had any sense they'd make a sealed head design WITHOUT plastic of any kind! I don't care if it bears a load or not, if its plastic I'm that much more likely bash it on something and break it off. (of course nothing is impervious to breakage) but ratchets are one of the most commonly used hand tools so therefore quality should be the BIGGEST concern IMHO!

 

I'm not too much into the scientific makeup of the tools as to why they are good or bad but, can usually tell the difference. You also have to look at the wrenches themselves....The nice shiny "slimline" ones are most often the ones that have more flex and break sooner. Of coarse.. the one that flex usually end up rounding the bolts. Then if you have a wrench that loses the chrome, it's probably because it flexes too much. This seems to all lead back to the same area.

 

Good point Fordman..I think I have one of those plastic things. It banged up against something in my box and broke. Most of my ratchets are the older ones though with the metal reverser and I don't have problems with those. That was a sad day when they decided to go that direction.

 

Never used them before but I will surely be getting some after a recent experience rounding off a bolt!!!!

Craftsman is what I will try, since I use them so rarely.

 

Very rarely; so I would have been better off using a vice grip. The nut usually rusts to the line; so you just break the line anyway when you turn the nut.