Some may remember my previous post's regarding the rhodes lifters that ate my way to big camshaft....I have installed the crane 343941, recurved the distributor...and WOW..its got some bottom end...I mean lots of bottom end ....The only thing that is driving me crazy...is the @##$^&% crane anti pump up lifters...It doest matter if I set them .020 or .060 compressed, they are noisey...I have had problems with these lifters in the past...

When I had the same problem with the previous cam, I replaced the cranes with Federal Mougal. The FM's were quiet while running but tended to leak down over night and rattle on a cold start ( could be my heavy valve springs)...

Anyone else experience this? I havent tried the comp cams version...Does anyone know if they are quieter....D44HD

 

I should add I have 110 oil pressure on a cold start, 80 hot at cruise and 30 at hot idle...So I know thats not the problem

 

What filter do you run? If you run one with an inadequate anti-drainback valve (like a fram) it can cause lifter noises at startup.

How bad is the lifter noise? I have a set of those crane lifters, and if it's real bad I may just get another brand before I put it together.

You did break in the cam and lifters correctly... right?

 

Cranes and comps lifters are exactly the same. There is only one lifter manufacturer in the world and they only make two types of lifters for the FE that I know of. If you call crane they will tell you that you can run to autozone and buy a direct replacement lifter. Federal Mogul also uses the same lifter. You may have run into a bad batch as the quality of lifters today is pretty low.

 

I thought that only the Rhoades anit-pump-up's were noisy, I thought the crane and comp versions were supposed to be quiet like a normal hyd. lifter...??? I have a set of the Crane anti-pump-up's but I didn't use them (saved them for the next cam cause my Edelbrocks were still good). OOhhh wait a second, I thought that the Rhoades were just supposed to help give an engine with a little to big of cam some better idle and torque characteristics, (correct me if I am wrong) I thought that anti-pump-up's were just designed to not pump up with oil at higher RPM's- Not what I just described with the Rhoades.

 

Anti pump ups are just Crane's fancy name for a standard hydraulic lifter. Rhoades are the same lifter but they modify them to give them the extra bleedoff at low rpms/reduced oil pressures.

 

Are the Crane's known for being noisy?

 

Nope, mine is noisy too but I found that to be excessive spacing between my solid spacers (no springs) and the rocker/stands. Cranes lifters should be just like any other lifter.

 

Hold on Nelly, we have a slight error here. Crane and Comp lifters ARE NOT THE SAME!

Quick background: a few years ago there were three lifter manufacturers in the US. Johnson produced different quality/price levels of lifters for different companies-hence you saw the low ball priced stuff like in Summit.

Eaton made the best lifter by far, and Stanadyne was a smaller manufacturer with a mid grade part.
Johnson goes out of business. Eaton gets out of the flat tappet business. Suddenly, Stanadyne is all by itself with only limited capacity. Massive shortages in the industry. Companies trying to find old shelf stock to buy. Limits on getting lifters (when available) only with the purchase of a cam, etc.

While Stanadyne is tooling up, the old lifter plant in Mexico is re-started, as well as a new plant in the far east comes on line. Some cam companies buy/sell anything they can get their hands on. Example-couldn't get any Crane lifters. I got five sets of Comp lifters. Opened them up on the counter, and there were three distinctly different designs. Called Comp to find out differences. Tracked the purchasing agent down that handles lifters, & he told me he had no idea what was in their boxes....

I said a little prayer, picked the "best" looking set, installed and ran. Lost more than eight lobes. Now this is the first cam I have lost in 20 years of building engines. I take a lot of pride in cam break-in success. Until now.

Did a lot of research. This is what I have found:
The imported lifters seem to work fine as long as the open spring pressures DO NOT EXCEEDE 280#. Above that, they fail like crazy. Metalurgy not good enough-Rockwell too low. Proven again and again on in house dyno's at Comp, Crane, etc. (Not that they are forthcoming about this). Import lifters are spotty as to leakdown rates, and more than a few have come through missing some internal parts.

Stanadyne lifters are holding up much better overall. But, they are selling std production pieces and "high spec" pieces that are supposed to be tighter tolerance. However, more problems with noise than in the old days. Bleed rates not as consistant as they should be-hence some more noise. Recommended to run thicker oils: 15/40 or even 20/50 to quiet them down. To try and avoid problems, I spec only top quality Stanadynes, and pray.

Now, in reference to the noisy Crane's. If you run the Crane Hi Intesnity lifters, they are noisy! They are supposed to be as they have faster bleed rates. The regular lifters (FE #99281) should be much quieter, though not as good as the old days. NOTE: just a small amount of particulates in the engine can cause the lifters valves to stick and cause excessive noise. This is VERY common on freshly built engines as very few shops/home builders get the assy's as clean as they need to be. Result is either run a cleaner like BG's MOA and hope for best, remove lifters-disassemble & clean, or replace with new set. This last one is often done and when the new lifters work, a mistaken assumption that the old lifters were "bad" is made.

Enough for now. Take it as you like.
Rob

 

RobMcQ...thats great info, and it makes a lot of sense...The rhodes, that wiped out my cam must have been the imports...wiped out 2 lobes, and like you I have broken in many cams, and never had a failure!.Guess what- my springs are just over 280 lbs pressure. And its not a fresh engine, just a fresh cam..... Now with the crane 99281, must be the same mfg as the Rhodes...They are identical inside and out except for the grove machined on the plunger in the rhodes...

I phoned Rhodes about the problem, the guy I talked to was very pleasant, and immediatly offered to send me out a new set...So they are either a very good company, and stand behind their products, or they are aware they are having failure problems..

The noise I am having is like a high mileage set, with one a little louder at idle ( I could live with it if they were all the same) on the right bank. I went from 10/30 to 10/40 and it did quiet down a little but I have not got it fully warmed up yet..

 

Are you saying, that if the lifters were old stock they could be any one of the above.?..Thanks...d44hd

 

Thanks for the info Rob. I could only find two different types but its nice to know there is three. Still all the same manufacturer and questionable quality. Comp will tell you they have never seen a cam go flat due to anything other than improper break-in. It also nice to know what you found about the comps.