As the U.S. seems to continuously become more and more politically divided, I somethimes find myself wondering if everyone of us would be happier if we were two separate countries; The "Conservative States of America', and the "Liberal States of America. We could peacefully, yet coldly co-exist. Far fetched, I know, but let me relate an imaginary, yet NOT far fetched scenario that could lead up to it.

John Kerry wins the presidency in 2004, by a slim, yet non disputable 52% of the popular vote. Also, the Democrats get the Senate back by one seat, giving the delirious-with-joy Tom Daschle his gavel back. The Kerry administration moves along much as the first Clinton administration did. One of the more notable things he does is appoint a very aggressive EPA administrator, to make up for the complete environmental inaction of the Bush administration. The CAFE standards that he campaigned on are put in place, and suv's and pickup's are now subject to CAFE standards as well. A governmental health care plan is nearing completion by the end of 2005, and the opposition to it is ugly. Tension is in the air everywhere, fights and shootings break out in bars and workplaces - any place that political conversation happens. In the 2006 super bowl, middle east terrorists quietly appear, with guns and plenty of ammo that they got from U.S. gun shows, and mow down 900 people before security manages to kill/arrest them. Kerry manages to use this to all but repeal the second amendment. Strict licencing for all gun owners, and only very few types of guns are now allowed. It is announced in early 2008 that tobacco will be outlawed by 2010.

Now it's time for the 2008 election, and Kerry loses to some new Republican exactly the same way Gore lost to Bush in 2000 - Kerry ever so slightly wins the popular vote, but loses to the new guy by the electorial college. The senior senator from New York, Hillary Clinton, shrieks that no one listened to her in 2002 when she said that we need to do away with the electorial college, and strictly go by the popular vote. Were they ready to listen to her now? SHE GETS IT DONE. But it can't go into effect untill 2012. A seething Tom Daschle declares that his Senate will block every single thing this Republican president trys to do. States now really have their hands full trying to controll the bar and workplace fights. Govorners pleas are being ignored.

Suddenly, 10 states announce their successon from the union. (2 western, 5 southern, 2 midwest, and one new england. Allmost no common borders. The president and congress, determined not to repeat the mistake of 1860, decide that the country must split in two - an east west split. A wall similar to the Berlin wall, splitting the Dakotas - Nebraska - Kansas - Oklahoma - Texas. The Liberals get the west, and the Conservatives get the east. (that's the only way it would work - the weather blows from west to east. If the Conservatives were in the west, their air pollution would blow right over and pollute the Liberals air, so that wouldn't work) Everyone would have about 6 months to decide which country they want to live in. Liberals in the east would have to sell out and move, same with the conservatives in the west. Then the wall is complete, with very few checkpoints, for just a little very simple trade, and then everyone could live in bliss. The liberal side would be completely free to have all the big government they want. Government jobs for almost everyone, national health care, abortion on demand, gay mariages. Safety and a clean environment would be the order of the day. They could stay out of wars........the list goes on and on - everything today's Democrat presidential candidates are promising could be an easy reality.

The Conservative side could breath a sigh of relief. They would have probably been the ones who funded the building and guarding of the wall - it would be worth it to keep Liberals out!! Personal responsibility would be the rule. No more CAFE - they could buy mid-size cars with 460's!!! Employers could keep jobs there, they would no longer be forced overseas by EPA regulations! They could have real CHRISTMAS parties - the 10 commandments could be in the courthouses - kids could have toys with sharp edges and choking hazards to play with, to learn personal responsibility at an early age!!

Seriously, the conservative side would be free and productive, able to solve pollution problems as the people see them with their own eyes. The government would be small enough so that it wouldn't be corrupt. No social security, the people would retire the same way they did from 1776 to 1929 - privately. Then there wouldn't have to constantly be more and more entitlement programs, since there would be none to grow from.

Which side would succeed, and which side would fail? That's my question. I think it's obvious. There would be little incentive to produce needed products on the Liberal side. Most people would wait for their handout, and there would be no conservatives to provide it.

Liberals need Conservatives, but Conservatives don't need Liberals.

Bring on the comments and Flames!

marc

 

Sounds about right except the liberals would be invaded and overrun by another nation and would end up begging the conservatives to come save them.

Im all for it!!!!!!!!

 

Start your Super Bowl party a wee bit early, did you?

Actually, you present an interesting scenario. It could NEVER happen though, as I and most conservative westerners would never be willing to go east to live, and I suspect the liberal easterners feel the same about going west...

Now, in reality, the vast majority of people in this country are moderate (including myself) in their politics rather than absolute staunch right or left wingers. I don't think the group here in the 'P Pen' are a statistically valid representation of Americans and their politics.

 

Uhh, where's the "I'd rather shoot myself than be in either one" choice? Or the "move to Canada" choice?

 

Moderate conservative on this forum carries an assult weapon instead of a watch, believes conservative fiscal responsibility means invading countries because they don't believe in Jesus, any liberal is an overeducated stinking communist and the bigger the truck the better the man. The neo-conservatives... Let's hope you're right.

 

No thanks!

 

Your scenario assumes that Daschle will beat John Thune this year. Could the voters of South Dakota really be that silly? Well... I guess they did give us McGovern...

(I can say this - I grew up there.)

dn.

 

Your fantasy scenario is presented with considerable bias and imagination. Thankfully, we have settled the question re division of the union. Like it or not, we are all in the same boat facing a future beset with problems that will never be solved by finger pointing and label pasting. I want to see problems addressed and not avoided for political expediency, action instead of rhetoric and patriotism over party - wishful thinking perhaps. That boat we are in is taking on water and we will probably be quibbling when it sinks under us

 

Besides, neither group could survive without the tax revenues from the other. No matter who's in power, they're always glad to collect taxes from the opposition. They ALL seem to like spending our money!

 

Hi marc9000,

I submit that they do. I believe both parties need to be vibrant, active and have a traditional base. Both wings need to beat for the eagle to fly.

Consider Germany for a moment. It emerged into the modern era with Otto von Bismarck at the helm, and knew only a conservative tradition. During the 1920's and 30's, election choices were between Communist or several Conservative parties; no liberal parties were represented. We know the results.

regards

 

Harsh....

You do know that Daddy Bush brought us the EPA, right?

I know he wasn't the most conservative guy, either, but he did have the "R" by his name on the ballots. So, in that regard, the Republicrats tend to care more about the environment than Libs...

Heck, we all know how much the ELF cares about the environment, don't we? Want to save the world from gas guzzlers? Okay, torch stealerships full of SUVs! Doesn't look to caring to me....

Either way, I guess I missed where Dubya has been so inactive on the environment...and where Libs have been sooooo pro-active.

 

Not all of us think liberals are "overeducated".

 

Well I thought it was Nixon that brought us the EPA. I wish he wouldn't have - it's so easy for a small, seemingly reasonable idea to turn into a monster. But that monster is the Democrat's pet now.

I don't think too many ELF members are going to be voting for Dubya.

In my fantasy, I forgot to decide who gets Alaska - a sizable peice of land. Oh well, it's in the west, let the Liberal side have it. They could use the Arctic wildlife refuge as a vacation spot. On second thought, given their situation, they might have some brand new ideas about drilling for oil there!

 

This could possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted here. I wouldn't know how to begin.

 

Serious negotiations with Mexico would be a good start.