OK, I am getting ready to purchase my first new vehicle ever,( I have usually built up my own) so bear with me. I have learned a lot by reading everyones posts , but I am still confused on a few things. The main thing is getting the dealer to come down off the MSRP. I have already decided not to buy from the dealership in my hometown because I have heard nothing but horror stories on how they will not deal because they are the only dealership here in town. I live about 75 miles north of the Los Angeles area and have been reading the ads for Ford dealers in the LA times. Every one of them starts out with a "dealer discount" anywhere between $3000 and $5000 if you take delivery from dealer stock. Are you guys saying I can get even more off of that?! We are looking at the 04 XLT 5.4 towpkg supercab 6.5 bed, MSRP about 30,000 give or take for some options. We are not planning on ordering and are being somewhat flexible on colors, so if a dealer might have something close, that would be cool. I am still a bit comfused about XPLAN and the invoice issue you guys talk about . Maybe there is a link here that I just have not seen yet that would help. Sorry about the novel here, I am just trying to get the best deal so we can enjoy our truck without having to starve to make the payments. Thank you very much!!!!

 

Check out the "Things you should know"... thread. Theres a link to carbuyingtips.com.......lots of reading but it will help you figure out what your doing...don't get too wrapped up in it or you'll drive yourself nutz.....

 

Hey, it's a great thing you are asking the right questions.
I'm not the end-all of advice by any means, but the ONLY purpose I see in MSRP is to smile when I know that some people actually are willing to pay it when the informed-buyers (such as what you'll be if you take your time to learn some tips ) get to save, YES, t h o u s a n d s of dollars off that figure.
I know everyone has their own references to check out....but you can simply go to www.kbb.com and select "new car pricing" and build the truck just as you would like to find it on the lot. (colors, options, everything)
It will tell you ALL the available options on the truck you are choosing, how much MSRP is for each item available, configuration possibilities, AND (yippee ) INVOICE for every item as well as the base truck.
Invoice is MY personal starting point.....not MSRP!
Let me put it this way, Janstang... EVERY Ford dealer I have been working with has come down to invoice on their truck, which is somewhere near (Xplan price). Why the heck would they be willing to do that? Because they wanna sell trucks! And it is a very competitive market. I PROMISE you can easily get any F150 for a couple hundred over invoice......ordering or not, with VERY LITTLE effort to haggle. But that's not good enough for me, since I know it can be done with just a tad more effort and guts.....I'll be getting mine below invoice, then subtracting the rebates that are available to me from Ford at the time my truck is "delivered" to me.
Just so you know.......you're not breaking the dealer's back. Remember, there's PLENTY of other buyers forking over thousands of extra $$$, so they'll stay in business, trust me.
Ford provides them incentives as well for moving their vehicles into the hands of consumers. The most-common and solid monies/reimbursements they get are what's called a "holdback". Essentially, if you take 3 % of total MSRP......that is approx. the amount the dealer gets paid from Ford after the sell of the vehicle.
In other words, the dealer "pays" invoice to get the truck, have their business expenses on top of that, and get that credit back from Ford. So, in essense paying invoice, receiving "holdback" monies for the sell, and having expenses.
On the truck you mention......they'll "make" an add'l $900 or so, but then have expenses as well.
THAT is why, if a dealer is motivated to sell cars, they are oft currently willing to sell near invoice. (forget worrying about MSRP)

Now.....as to payments? You could fight hard to get a good rate thru FMCC (Ford's lending program), and not be eligible for the rebates for the truck.......OR USE the rebates toward the purchase price (making less due to own the truck), and seek your own financing elsewhere, if you can lock down a good rate. The latter tends to be a better way to do it if you have good credit/funding source, but there are so many variables, it surely is a personal choice.

It just so happens I'm considering a similar truck... Options differ of course, but with a few added to the 4x4 '04F150 XLT Supercab, 6.5Styleside with 5.4L engine......MSRP came as I equipped it to $32655 (which includes the destination charge), and invoice is at $28,630. If I bought that truck for $30k......in my meager opinion.......I'd have been "taken to the cleaners" by the dealer. $29k would be pushing it for me. (and yes, I mean whether ordering OR buying it off the lot )

When you wanna purchase.......go in the final 5 days of the month. Trust me, they are MUCH more motivated to be flexible in working out a deal that you request, then they are at the beginning or middle of the month, wanting to work you over with a deal they are more likely to let you walk FROM (for being too high).

Carry a printout from kbb.com, or wherever you got the invoice figures with the options listed out as you'd like it. Locate a vehicle on their lot (or they can trade for one from another dealer for a small fee) to get what you are looking for. Test drive it.....inspect it.....make sure it's what you want. Then let them know what you'd be willing to spend, and stick to your guns. If you offer $300+ above invoice, I'd not budge from there. ALWAYS be willing to walk. You will get a deal that you are not only happy of, but will be just as proud as you are to drive the best "half ton" truck on the face of this planet!

Good luck Janstang, hope that helped.

(what were you saying about a novel? ha ha ha )
~jc

p.s. just in case you once-thought it out of your range...I "built" the same truck, in Lariat trim, for just $1542 above that cost on that XLT.....just a thought for you to ponder. (heck, if you SAVE $2grande of what you thought you'd spend.....maybe you'd still come out ahead with a Lariat cheaper than what you may have otherwise purchased an XLT for, eh? It just may be tougher to find on a lot as you'd like it.)

 

Janstang351-
If you're apologizing for your "novel," then jcreality is responible for an encyclopaedia! Wow, what more can I say! I'll only take issue on one point: the wait-till-the-end-of-the-month tactic. Unfortunately, EVERY consumer is trying this, so it backfires. Everybody waits so that on the last Saturday of the month every showroom is over-flowing with customers. The sales managers look at this and figure "demand is exceeding supply." If you see a showroom full of customers, do you really think you're going to get a better deal? It's time to reverse the thinking on this one. If there really is a better time to purchase (and I'm not totally convinced there is), then it may well be at the BEGINNING of the month, when showrooms are empty and dealers are anxious to "get a good month going." Just my $.02, and BTW, I love exposing this stuff. I'm fortunate to work at a dealership that's done nothing but one-price, deep-discounted selling from the day we started, and it's been extremely successful. I can tell you all the tips and angles you need to work with traditional "negotiating" dealerships, because none of that stuff can be used against me!

 

Why don't you go to the Ford web site and use the "build your own truck" option. It will list the list price and the invoice price. Take it to the dealer and offer him $100.00 over invoice as astarting point.

 

hehehe.....I'll TRY to keep this one brief, Mr. Protected-from-all-tactics!
(that was kinda cute to hear a salesman sayin' that! *giggling*)

As to the end of the month.....I only say that because I too, used to sell cars (4 years ago), and I don't see how it has really changed as far as a salesperson being motivated, atleast......if not also the manager/dealership. I say this due to spiffs, bonuses/retro-bonuses, allotments, etc. that each player in the selling business benefits from. Or the taxes, insurance, finance payments, and flooring costs the dealership faces by holding a vehicle into the next month as negative motivator as well. But maybe you're right, or maybe that only does not apply to your type of dealership (of the deep-discount from the get-go).

Regardless, it's the timing which I've moved to buy my last 3 vehicles, and it may very well be different for some....but it's never mattered to me how many bees are buzzing the showroom. And I have no doubt that I got much better deals on each than I would have with any other timing. I yet tend to feel that the dealer AND salesperson are more-motivated to lock down that "one last deal" for the month.

Haha....so much for being brief! <<<<< yeah, that's my "I'M A DORK" hat!

Awe heck.....just get the truck for where you feel right.....near invoice, and you got a GREAT truck at a great deal! Any Ford dealer should be happy to serve you well on those needs.

 

I ordered an 04 F150 Lariat 4x4 super cab friday. I was going to get it from the second dealer that I talked to for 1500 over invoice because he was giving me more for my trade. I looked a little further and got it at invoice with the higher trade value at the third dealer. If you dont have a trade never go over invoice less the available rebate. Ford must think that invoice is the new retail price because they publish it on their website, so why would anybody pay more? All I know is that every where I look I see new Dodge trucks coming at me, so if Ford wants to stay on top they have to be agressive with the incentives or the bottom line prices. So walk in offer them invoice less the rebates and walk out if you have too, in the long run you will come out with the deal you want. One more thing if your going to order leather in an XLT you should check out the lariat, with all the standard options it works out to be a better deal.

 

These are the types of resonses I was hoping for, thank you very much!!! I went to Forddirect.com and "built" the truck I wanted and came up with an MSRP of 29.670 . I did not see anything about invoice-did I not look in the right place? I saw a few XLT's on my local dealers lot that came close to what I want, and with what all of you are saying , I figure I might be able to negotiate myself out of paying for things I dont want when I go to the LA dealers. For instance, most of the trucks we looked at had the power pedals and power drivers seat. My wife is only 1 inch shorter than me so these are totally not needed. We also do not care about the 6 CD or sliding rear window polished wheels and such. Out of all the trucks we looked at most of them were XLT's and I think that is what we would be most happy with. It seems to us that dealers "load up" these trucks on the lot with a bunch of options. We want a few creature comforts but do not want to go overboard. I see what you guys are saying about the "uneducated" buyers-a friend of my wifes just bought a new Durango for $1500 under the MSRP and thought she got a screaming deal!!! And this was from the local Dodge dealer that puts a $1900 "dealer markup" sticker next to the Dodge factory sticker. That is sheer lunacy to me. Anyway, if I can find out where I can get this"invoice" number, I will get that info too. Thank you once again!!!!

 

Mike, thanks for that info. No, I will not be coming in with a trade in. The truck I have now is an 83 GMC, so I know I will get more money if I sell it private party. We plan to take somewhere between $3500-$4000 with us when we actually go to get a new truck.

 

hey bro......
Like I said above..... go to: www.kbb.com
Build the truck just like you did on the Ford website, and it'll give you invoice.
Maybe it was just hard to find amidst my barrage of words up there! ha ha

[I know, I've never yet seen invoice listed on the Ford site either]


keep in mind that you always have the option to go to the dealer you want, but not choose what they have on their lot. ASK. They may have just THE truck on its way in from the factory, OR you can have them "locate" one elsewhere and trade one of their trucks for it, to be able to sell you the one you want.


EDIT:
Oh, Mike........
I agree......if you're getting a supercab anyway, or crewcab.....there is very little difference in cost, actually for the Lariat. I honestly believe that THAT is why Ford themselves are 'surprised' by HOW MANY Lariats they are selling compared to the other trims.
Sure, it's a lot of money, but if you're adding options to the baser models, they add up to close the same price

 

I just double checked the ford web site and when you build a ford F150, look in the left pane it shows you the MSRP and below it the invoice price. Any time I have ever asked a dealer to show me the trucks invoice they have never refused. Like it was said above, the dealer makes hold back, and any ford to dealer incentives that the buyer wouldn't know about, so don't believe that they cant sell a truck at or a little below invoice and still turn a profit. When you walk through the dealers door bring a thermos full of coffee, your lunch, a change of clothes and a parabolic microphone so you can hear them talking in the managers office. Don't leave till you get the deal that YOU want. And if you cant come to terms walk out proud knowing that you didn't get screwed.

 

janstang351

I'm not sure if I could have negotiated a better deal, but I'm satisfied with the deal that I made following similar tactics suggested by jcreality. I went to various websites such as www.edmunds.com and www.forddirect.com to price the F150. I found both sites comparable to each other in their pricing. I even visited www.carmax.com to see their “no haggle” pricing.

I printed all my sources and off to the dealers I went. In my case, the invoice was $34,443.00. I visited 5 Ford dealers in my area (Savannah, Georgia) and spent no more than about an hour at each dealership and then walked away (they all started at MSRP short of $40K). Three called me back and we bargained back-and-forth for about 3 weeks. Finally, the dealer I least expected settled with me at $35100 for a 2004 F150 FX4 SuperCrew 4x4 Styleside. I drove it off the dealer lot last Thursday and have been smiling ever since. The bottom line is that I’m happy with my purchase. I didn’t get stiffed too much. I love that center console shifter! Hopefully, this is helpful in your planning efforts in going after your F150. Good luck!

EXBMWTURNFX4SCREW

 

Hey bro.......on a Supercrew, you didn't get "stiffed" at all.
As far as I know, they don't have the rebates available like the reg and supercabs... PLUS, you were WAY under MSRP......AND the truck was ON THE LOT (big difference than ordering).
$650 over, is not bad at all. I doubt there are many out there getting THAT far below invoice as mentioned; it's likely that you won't hear of deals better.
Just wanted you to know, that you still got a good deal on a GREAT truck, in my humble opinion, too. Kudos!
Shoot, I've spent hours FINDING OUT what I can get 'em down too.....had I not had forums like this, and the patience, etc.....I'd have been TICKLED PINK if I couldda gotten a regular cab for $300-500 above invoice. MOST people don't have the time, patience, or resources so I'd never look down on someone who paid even MSRP for an F150........
Atleast they bought THE RIGHT TRUCK!!

 

Just recently went through a purchase (Dec) of a F-250 SD. I found out about X-PLAN by reading the posts here, & some of the diesel sites.

Ford will sell to an employee @ A-PLAN. This is about $1k under invoice. If you or your spouse work for a company that qualifies, X-PLAN is available. Try www.fordpartner.com for information, or check with your human resources department. In my case, it was my wife that qualified. X-PLAN will let you pruchase up to 2 vehicles per year. X-PLAN will vary, but in my case it was 300 under the dealer invoice on the F-250. Let the dealer know you qualify & have a PIN. fordpartner.com will let you build a vehicle & than show you the X-PLAN price. My dealer showed me his invoice, and it had invoice, x-plan & a-plan on the paper.

Also, alway ask about other incentives. I happened to qualify for retired military ($750). The incentives change on an almost daily basis, so timing comes into play too.

By the time I was done, I had $4,250 in incentive money, X-PLAN, and 900 in trade. I got the truck out the door for over $10,000 below MSRP.

Keep working all the angles, and like the man said, be willing to walk away. The truck I bought, I had given up on 4mos ago, because the incentives & trade were not there then. 4mos later, I'm really happy with my new truck.

 

I went to kbb.com like you guys said and they gave my an msrp of 30,360 and invoice of 26,651. It would not let me choose the right bed configuration, but for the sake of comparison, its close enough. So, according to kbb the "markup" is $3709. Heres where it gets interesting- I pick up the car ads inthe LA Times today and here are Ford dealers with what seems like incredible bargains!!!! One dealer is advertising a $5045 dicount on an 04 F150. I think it is an XL but the ad is not real specific. Another Ford dealer advertises an XLT Expedition ( yea, not an F150) but I have to use this an example since it has more detail) for msrp of $35,155 and then gives a dealer discount of $6,186 making the price BEFORE factory rebates and bonus cash $28,969. Now just out of pure curiosity I went to kbb and dialed up a similarly msrp priced Expedition. Kbb gave me an msrp of $34,085 and invoice price of $30,744. Lets say since the actual Epedition is $1,000 more than the virtual one on kbb, we will assume that kbb would put the invoice price at $31,000. If kbb is giving an ACCURATE invoice number, than this dealer is selling this vehicle for $2,786 UNDER INVOICE. How is this possible? I am sorry I sound so skeptical, but I think that kbb does not give accurate invoice numbers. I find it so hard to beleive that Ford would so willingly give out invoice numbers on a website that is not their own. Wouldnt this information be the best kept secret in the retail auto world? Twoballsleft was so right- I am driving myself crazy thinking about it all, but there is so much stuff out there its hard to keep it all striaght, but I am learning so much. Oh, yea, I still did not get any invoice info when I built my truck on fords website, so I am still missing something there, or the fog in my mind is blocking my vision. If any of you out there find something or everthing wrong with my findings, please let my know, I might have overlooked something. Thanks for reading, hope i did not make you too sleepy!!!!!!!!