I've got 99 F250 SD PSD auto w/66k miles. Less than 5k of the miles were towing a 19' boat. Recently, my check engine light came on, and my OD light started flashing (no noise or vibrations). The dealer pulled the ATF pan, and found 'large' pieces of metal. $1,500 to pull the tranny apart just to determine the problem, and possibly a $3,500 total bill. His preliminary thinking is it was caused by towing with the OD on. Since I bought the truck to tow the boat (or maybe I bought the boat as an excuse to get the truck), I'm pretty disapointed.

Is this unusual for only 60k miles? I know it depends on the dealer, but in general, woud I be better off getting it rebuilt by a tranny specialist?

BTW - At the same time the trouble lights came on, my speedometer stopped working below 25 mph, and the ABS trouble light came on. These were attributed to a bad sensor ($200 part). Coincidence? or related to the other symptoms?

 

Sounds like the VSS located on the rear axle housing. Did you see these pieces of metal??

For that cost call BTS and get the best tranny out there for the SD. You will need to wait till it comes in from Arkansas but it is your only option.

 

yes, but there is a solution. whenever towing a trailor turn of the od on a auto tranny. when you toe in od you make way more heat than the parts in the box can possibly handle.

 

That would be incorrect.

You can tow with the OD on. If the truck is in OD then the TC is locked, thereby REDUCING any heat that would otherwise be made with it unlocked.

The tranny did not grenade due to twoing a boat.

I would suspect that you visited an inept or even crooked dealer. I say this because he charged you $200 for a $40 part.

I furthermore suspect that the VSS was the cause of your problems and not the tranny.

 

I agree with Monsta. Somtin sounds fishy....real stinky.

 

I gotta agree with MONSTA on this one. first off, the PSD should have had NO trouble with towing the boat, and towing in OD is the preferred way to go. More so in a gasser than a PSD, but it definitely doesn't hurt to engage the OD on the PSD, if only on hills and grades. On flats and downhills, the PSD should do fine even without the OD button activated.
Sounds like the dealer is stroking you.... BIG TIME.

on edit: Just re-read your thread, in anger mind you. Did you say the mechanic found "large" pieces of metal after removing the tranny pan? I've NEVER seen or heard of "large" pieces" making through the tranny, then the filter, to settle in the pan. Small flakes and an occasional chip yes, but how does a "large" piece work its way through the labyrinth of a maze that a tranny consists of? Can someone 'splain that to me, cuz I'm smelling something that sounds alot like bull-droppings?

Just my $.02,

 

I too have a 99psd and I too tow, my boat weighs about 10k with trailer, probably pushing 11k with gear and full fuel, I live in the rockies and have steep grades to pull, I always tow in OD, I have had no problems, and my truck probably has 10k in towing miles, I have never had one problem.

I dont know why your tranny went away but towing in OD is not the reason

 

I am leery of dealer mechanics diagnosing and repairing specific problems. They are great at going thru the book and removing and replacing until they fix the problem, but in my experience they are almost trial and error and cost more than a shop that specializes.

If your truck was under warranty then going to the dealer makes sense, but out of warranty I take it to specialists.

Your problem is that your truck is now at the dealer in pieces and you are already into it for $XX. So it is debatable whether it makes sense to go to another shop or let the dealer finish the job. I would guess the dealer will put in a reman, but who knows, they might actually try a rebuild. I hope they have an experienced tranny guy. Your cost is on the highside but then dealers almost always are.

I wonder also what they mean large chunks. Chips maybe the size of corn and maybe even long spirals of shaved of metal, but what are chunks? Maybe the gear pack or the reaction shell broke?

As far as towing in OD. For most trucks that is fine, the key is to down shift if your tranny starts to hunt gears. When the tranny hunts gears, ie shifts back and forth, that is when it generates heat and wear. If you are towing and approaching a long uphill I would downshift to 3rd before you lose speed. I would keep it there until the hill is over or you are out of a series of hills.

Since we don't know what weight boat you have, we can only guess, that something failed, perhaps due to lack of maintenance or low fluid. 60K miles is a little short for a truck tranny unless you are constantly under heavy load, even then a good rebuild can fix that.

Did you buy the truck new? If used, do you know the history and maintenance? That could be a big clue to the early failure.

As far as the speedo/ABS sensor, on older trucks, mine is 94, they cost something like $15, but yours maybe has a more complicated ABS setup. The 94 250 had rear ABS only, I think they went to 4 wheel ABS a year or so later. Still, $200 for a sensor sounds awful high.

Good Luck,

Jim Henderson

 

I have a 2001 5.4 250 Crew Cab. With 35994 miles on the odometer I pulled into the dealership. My tranny was shot. Metal in the pan. I tow a huge boat in OD all summer long. I think the total weight of my boat and trailer is 750 lbs. It's a JetSki. The lake is 12 miles each way and it is flat here in Houston, TX. So, towing in OD is not the problem. Thank god it was replaced under the warranty. They put in a factory rebuilt and a new tranny filter up by the cooler. Total price was $2668.35 That was 3 1/2 months and 4000 miles ago. It is going back Monday for what I think will be rebuilt tranny #2. This time the dealship said they would give me a loaner. I just hope the cover the repair under the warranty again. They told me the new one would have a 12 month/12000 mile warranty.
So, let see: Drive shaft replace around 12000 miles, tranny replaced 35994, and tranny #2 at 40000. I use this truck as a Texas Cadilac. It's a driver not a worker. I think Ford has a problem.

I will let you know what happen. I have heard the dealership techs replace things and not repair them because they don't have the skills. If the warranty won't pay for it I would get it to a tranny PRO.

Just my 2 cents.

 

First, thanks to all of you for the advice. HeavyAssault, your rec to contact BTS (took me awhile to figure out what that stood for) was much appreciated. Brian listened to the entire story, and offered some great advice in line with what you guys were saying (never once giving the sales pitch for his own shop). He was just interested in getting to the bottom of it...so here is the latest.

Based on advice from you gurus and my own gut, I told the dealer service rep. to not take apart the tranny. I went to pick it up, and asked him about the size of the pieces. He said they were the size of a wedding ring. I asked to see them, and he said they weren't saved. I asked to talk to the mechanic. According to the mechanic, the chips/flakes were about 1/10-inch wide (you were right DS59...). The sensor they installed to fix the speedometer and the ABS warning light was the rear VSS (Monsta had this pegged). $32 for the part, $165 for labor. The new VSS also cured the blinking OD light. The service engine soon light, however, is still on. According to my receipt, the error code is P0733, described as an incorrect gear ratio #3. I'm going to drive it around listening carefully, and give BTS a call if I feel anything amiss.

Thanks again. I'm out $165 but I consider that cheap considering the potential consequences and the new source of info I've found.

(Jim H. I bought the truck new, and have had all the major services done by the dealer, so I don't think low fluid or lack of maintenance was the problem. I've totally lost the faith with the dealer, however, so maybe maintenance was an issue. I couldn't find the boat weight on any of my paper work, but it is an 18.5' open bow power boat (not very big as far as trailered boats go).

 

HOLY EFFIN' CRAP!

I coulda flown over there and done it for you for $40! (I woulda have used my frequent flyer miles though. )

Sorry...I know you didn't need to hear that...

Don't walk away from that service department...RUN!


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Also wanted to welcome you to FTE! We're all glad you found us! Stick around, please!

 

WOW!

How many labor hours did they bill you? I think many here could have done that work in about an hour. I'd definitely find a new shop!

 

That is bad to hear that the new trannies are failing prematurely. fortunately I have a 94 E4OD which failed due to my stupidity and now has a "bullet proof" rebuild. Still it worries me that Ford hasn't got a handle on trannies lately it seems. I would have figured after the premature failures on early E4ODs they would have put the lessons to use in the new trannies being used.

Wedding ring sized metal sounds like some metal was shaved from something in that kind of spiral shape you often see. On one car I owned, that type shaving came from the reaction shell when it failed. If you are getting metal shavings in the fluid, even though they cleaned it out, you are probably getting more shavings and eventually you will kill the tranny. I would take it to a shop you trust and have them look it over. Rebuilding now may be less expensive than later if the shavings destroy gears, valves etc.

I almost always and disappointed and surprised when I take my truck or car to a dealer. When I took my truck in to Ford for some frontend work I also needed a new speed sensor. The part was about $15(rear ABS only) and labor was about $60. Now O know better and know that replacing the sensor will take 15 minutes if you are slow and methodical. So $60 labor is ridiculous but by the book. Your labor is even more rediculous unless the sensor for 4 wheel ABS is difficult to work on.

Good Luck,

Jim Henderson

 

You'll get that "incorrect gear ratio" if the speedo (VSS) sensor is bad. Since it's a "hard" code, it'll stay logged until it is cleared. If you don't know anyone with a scan tool that can clear the code, the dealer (har har hardy har har) can do it, but so can any other shop.

The easy way to fix it would be to just reset the computer - disconnect the battery for a night and start it up in the morning. It'll run "open loop" for a while until it passes all it's diagnostics.

You would probably be better of resetting the computer anyway, because anything the computer learned is suspect because it had a bad speed reading for a while.

(Note: if you clear the code with a scan tool, chances are, most of the diagnostics will be marked "untested" anyway, but not all).

Sounds like the dealer is a crook. $1500 just to pull the tranny apart? There's plenty of room underneath that truck, and you can't get any easier than rear-wheel drive, so pulling it is a breeze, even with a transfer case attached. For $1500, they should rebuild it and put it back in too!

 

Update #2. Since rescuing the truck from the dealer, I put about 5 miles on it. This morning, the check engine light was still on. I drove it less than a mile, parked, got back in two hours later, restarted and the warning light was OFF! Questions: 1) Does the diagnostic computer do self checks at some mileage or time intervals, and it just took it some miles and/or time for it to re-calc (with the new VSS) that everything in the transmission is OK? 2) Although the metal pieces were described as wedding ring size by the rep, the mechanic told me they were only 1/10-inch flakes (the service rep either lied, or can't communicate with his mechanic, neither of which is encouraging). I know small metal pieces in transmissions is normal, but how small? Is 1/10-inch 'normal'? (hopefully the answer is yes, because I feel like I just won the lottery).

Monsta. Thanks for the welcome. I called the dealer, and their mechanics charge $105/hr (it wasn't on the bill). So that calcs out to 1.6 hours to replace the VSS.