View Poll Results: should smoke detectors be required for private residences?
yes
14
66.67%
no
7
33.33%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll
smoke detectors
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 1
From: Roseburg OR.
Rock on Waxy!
Me too except where children live in the house. Obviously in new construction they have no way of knowing who's going to live there so they should be installed but not mandatory. I think any parents/legal guardians should be required to put them in or have the house built with them if children will live or sleep there regularly.
I can chose what to do with my life and I think others should have the same choice but children shouldn't be bound by bad decisions of their parents. There are 5 in my new house all wired into the house with battery backups and I wouldn't have it any other way with my baby girl living there.
If I lived alone then it should be my decision.
I can chose what to do with my life and I think others should have the same choice but children shouldn't be bound by bad decisions of their parents. There are 5 in my new house all wired into the house with battery backups and I wouldn't have it any other way with my baby girl living there.
If I lived alone then it should be my decision.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Save the helpless kids.
RRMike, you whining liberal
Seriously, if you put a caveat on it such as it must be in all homes with children living in them, then what? Homes where children may visit? What if kids break into your house (stranger lawsuits have been won)?
Children are bound by the decisions of their parents every day of their lives, both good and bad, where is the line where the government should be allowed to step in and be the parent? That's a can and a half of worms.
It's a line IMHO, black and white, you're either in or out. Either it's personal choice or it isn't.
Waxy
RRMike, you whining liberal
Seriously, if you put a caveat on it such as it must be in all homes with children living in them, then what? Homes where children may visit? What if kids break into your house (stranger lawsuits have been won)?
Children are bound by the decisions of their parents every day of their lives, both good and bad, where is the line where the government should be allowed to step in and be the parent? That's a can and a half of worms.
It's a line IMHO, black and white, you're either in or out. Either it's personal choice or it isn't.
Waxy
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 1
From: Roseburg OR.
I said live or sleep regularly. Maybe I should have just said live.
So judging by your comments you're against mandatory bicycle helmets for kids? I don't know about other places but here in Oregon every kid under 16 has to wear one. Should they then just be bound by the decisions of their parents on that issue as well? There are a lot of people in this country (including myself) that make decisions that may not be the safest but children should not be put at risk unnecessarily by decisions out of their control. One place I favor some government intervention is to protect children. They don't have the ability to protect themselves.
IMO
So judging by your comments you're against mandatory bicycle helmets for kids? I don't know about other places but here in Oregon every kid under 16 has to wear one. Should they then just be bound by the decisions of their parents on that issue as well? There are a lot of people in this country (including myself) that make decisions that may not be the safest but children should not be put at risk unnecessarily by decisions out of their control. One place I favor some government intervention is to protect children. They don't have the ability to protect themselves.
IMO
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 807
Likes: 1
From: Idaho
I think mandatory smoke detectors is a bad idea. Lots are left unconnected when the battery dies. How many people die in fires every year, compared to cars? The costs involved with the 'if it saves one life, it's worth it' mentality are huge. I am for seat belt laws, so I may be an oxymoron, or just a regular moron. If your house is full of smoke, do a Bill Clinton, don't inhale.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
When then, does a person stop being a kid? When do young people have the ability to protect themselves are make good decisions?
Is it the magical age of 16, when you get a drivers license?
Is it the magical age of 18, when you can vote?
Is it the magical age of 21, when you can drink alcohol?
Is it the magical age of 35 when you could run for the presidency of the US?
Or perhaps it is experientially based. Do you become an adult when:
You have sex for the first time?
You graduate from High School?
You buy a car?
You have children?
You get a job?
You buy a house?
You get a career?
You finish college?
Just wondering.
Whistler
Is it the magical age of 16, when you get a drivers license?
Is it the magical age of 18, when you can vote?
Is it the magical age of 21, when you can drink alcohol?
Is it the magical age of 35 when you could run for the presidency of the US?
Or perhaps it is experientially based. Do you become an adult when:
You have sex for the first time?
You graduate from High School?
You buy a car?
You have children?
You get a job?
You buy a house?
You get a career?
You finish college?
Just wondering.
Whistler
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
RRMike, I was joking at first, but you really are sounding like a "liberal" now! You, "a do gooder" and the gov't know best how to raise and protect "our" children.
I am against mandatory helmet laws for kids, call me cold, but that's the parent's perogative. I don't tell you how to raise your kids, don't presume to tell me how to raise MY kids.
I can't image how many miles I put on as kid without a helmet, on bicycles, sleighs, wagons, etc... I'm still here, so are all my brothers and cousins, so are all my friends from grade school on. What happened to the independence of the 1950's? Since when did we become incapable of looking after ourselves and our kids? Since when did we becomes a society of blithering idiots that need big brother to think and act for us?
I don't buy the logic that if one child is protected it's a worthwhile venture to impose laws on the other 99%. That's liberal and socialist at its height.
You did say live or sleep regularly, but just try to stop it there once the ball gets rolling - we'll be at my other two points in the blink of an eye.
I'm VERY hard line when it comes to personal freedom and privacy.
Waxy
I am against mandatory helmet laws for kids, call me cold, but that's the parent's perogative. I don't tell you how to raise your kids, don't presume to tell me how to raise MY kids.
I can't image how many miles I put on as kid without a helmet, on bicycles, sleighs, wagons, etc... I'm still here, so are all my brothers and cousins, so are all my friends from grade school on. What happened to the independence of the 1950's? Since when did we become incapable of looking after ourselves and our kids? Since when did we becomes a society of blithering idiots that need big brother to think and act for us?
I don't buy the logic that if one child is protected it's a worthwhile venture to impose laws on the other 99%. That's liberal and socialist at its height.
You did say live or sleep regularly, but just try to stop it there once the ball gets rolling - we'll be at my other two points in the blink of an eye.
I'm VERY hard line when it comes to personal freedom and privacy.
Waxy
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 1
From: Roseburg OR.
Waxy,
I'm against the helmet law for kids too. I think it's crazy and I base that on my own experiences just like you do.
Maybe that was a bad example. If all parents had your intelligence I would agree about the smoke detector issue as well. After some though about how the government would enforce such a thing I don't think it should be their business either. I still agree with the principle of it but unfortunately you start getting into home invasion/privacy issues which there is no solution for so I guess mandatory smoke detectors for houses where children reside wouldn't work but I just hope parents have the sense to at least have one in the kids' room.
I'm against the helmet law for kids too. I think it's crazy and I base that on my own experiences just like you do.
Maybe that was a bad example. If all parents had your intelligence I would agree about the smoke detector issue as well. After some though about how the government would enforce such a thing I don't think it should be their business either. I still agree with the principle of it but unfortunately you start getting into home invasion/privacy issues which there is no solution for so I guess mandatory smoke detectors for houses where children reside wouldn't work but I just hope parents have the sense to at least have one in the kids' room.
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Just to throw a monkeywrench into this whole deal....
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh
Originally posted by whistler
Just to throw a monkeywrench into this whole deal....
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
Just to throw a monkeywrench into this whole deal....
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
Why does everything come down to money? hehehe
I'm with Waxy 100%
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 3
From: Other side of the sunrise
I feel that the Govt has it's nose in our buisiness too deeply (hands in our pockets too) and that private enterprise (insurance companies)should bare the burdon of enforcing common sense regarding smoke alarms. It is in the insurance co's best interest that these things work so costs are kept lower.
Maybe some govt encouragement to the insurance co's would work if fines were involved, just to give a little prod. It is still in insurance co's interest to enforce.
Maybe if homeowners and slum lords were rewarded for compliance by a manifestation of lower premiums??
I guess I find it hard to debate over what is and should be. I believe in good and managable solutions. Any other ideas?
Maybe some govt encouragement to the insurance co's would work if fines were involved, just to give a little prod. It is still in insurance co's interest to enforce.
Maybe if homeowners and slum lords were rewarded for compliance by a manifestation of lower premiums??
I guess I find it hard to debate over what is and should be. I believe in good and managable solutions. Any other ideas?
Last edited by olfordsnstone; Jan 9, 2004 at 12:19 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
From: Calgary Canada
Originally posted by whistler
Just to throw a monkeywrench into this whole deal....
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
Just to throw a monkeywrench into this whole deal....
Should fire departments attempt to rescue people in homes without working smoke detectors then? After all, it was their choice that put them in the prediciment of not having ample warning to get out while the getting was good? I don't know that I should have to pay for somebody else's idiocy.
Whistler
How about if they let lint build up in the dryer? Never got their chimney swept? How about if they had an illegal meth lab in the basement?
What if your smoke detector simply malfunctioned?
We all pay for idiots, or the choices of others to put it more politely, one way or another - YES, the fire department should show up, it's their job to put out fires.
Should you be able to collect your home insurance? Should your insurance rates reflect your choice to not have smoke detectors in the home? What about life insurance? That's another matter. Like I said, personal freedom comes with the cost of personal responsibility for the consequeces.
Waxy
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Waxy
Like I said, personal freedom comes with the cost of personal responsibility for the consequeces.
Like I said, personal freedom comes with the cost of personal responsibility for the consequeces.
Whistler
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 3
From: Other side of the sunrise
quote:
Should your insurance rates reflect your choice to not have smoke detectors in the home?
_________________
Waxy, I agree for the most part in the last post. I do think that compliance with maintenance is important too. Premiums! key word.
Should your insurance rates reflect your choice to not have smoke detectors in the home?
_________________
Waxy, I agree for the most part in the last post. I do think that compliance with maintenance is important too. Premiums! key word.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 3
From: Other side of the sunrise
Originally posted by whistler
I just question the nature of personal responsibility. What does that really mean in an interwoven society such as ours?
Whistler
I just question the nature of personal responsibility. What does that really mean in an interwoven society such as ours?
Whistler