I have a question
our "system of time" basically starts at the birth of christ, years are either BC (before Christ) or AD (anno domini).
why then aren't Christmas and New Years the same day?

 

Because there would not be enough year end Holidays, Drunkenmonk. Sheesssh.

But if you discount that answer, then I have to say; GOOD QUESTION.

. . and hope someone else knows.

Just kidding. I believe is has something to do with somebody's semi-alleged resurrection.

 

I've wondered about this for a while now
figured I'd ask the pig pen, this is where I get all my information

 

the "birth of christ" we all assume to be the year 1 AD, and up to a point in history this was the case, but over time we got smarter, shifted to different calenders and at one point set the date of birth back to 6 BC, and pope made @2 weeks magicly vanish from the calender to adjust it, yad a yada yada... you want details I can sit and compose them better but I dont think your Q is aimed at that...
first off our calender is based on a system much older than the birth of "christ", and had nothing yto do with it. Our calender is based on older, seasonal and astrological systems, refined over the years and has no corrilation to christmas at all.
Sherman, set the way-back machine to 2000 Bc....
In the years around 2000 BC, the Babylonian New Year began with the first New Moon (actually the first visible cresent) after the Vernal Equinox (first day of spring).

The beginning of spring is a logical time to start a new year. After all, it is the season of rebirth, of planting new crops, and of blossoming. January 1, on the other hand, has no astronomical nor agricultural significance. It is purely arbitrary.

The Babylonian new year celebration lasted for eleven days.
The Romans continued to observe the new year in late March, but their calendar was continually tampered with by various emperors so that the calendar soon became out of synchronization with the sun.

In order to set the calendar right, the Roman senate, in 153 BC, declared January 1 to be the beginning of the new year. But tampering continued until Julius Caesar, in 46 BC, established what has come to be known as the Julian Calendar. It again established January 1 as the new year. But in order to synchronize the calendar with the sun, Caesar had to let the previous year drag on for 445 days.
Although in the first centuries AD the Romans continued celebrating the new year, the early Catholic Church condemned the festivities as paganism. But as Christianity became more widespread, the early church began having its own religious observances concurrently with many of the pagan celebrations, and New Year's Day was no different. New Years is still observed as the Feast of Christ's Circumcision by some denominations.

During the Middle Ages, the Church remained opposed to celebrating New Years. January 1 has been celebrated as a holiday by Western nations for only about the past 400 years.
ok cant stop now stand back..

the number of days in a tropical year, fixed by ceasaer reform is not exact. its too large by 0.0078 days, or 11.23 minutes. not much you think but by the middle of the 16th century the calender was off by 11.7 days. Pope greg the XIII orderedthe day after thursday oct 4 1582 should nbe friday oct15....
and then they had to deal with leap year...
from oct 15 1582 centennial lyears were not leap years even if divisable by 4, UNLESS divisible by 400. in a 400 yr cycle,there would be (365x400)+97=146097 days, = 365.242 dats per yr.
headache yet?
the gregorian calender wasnt pope gregs work, but the work of a priest and an astronomer. soon the calender was adopted by all catholic countries, but the brits didnt adopt it till 1752, by then they and all its colonies were 12 days behind. (they adjusted). to top it off, russia didnt adopt the calender till 1918 and it was 13 days behind!

Ok.. now my head hurts... needlkess to say, christmasand new years day have nothing whatsoever to do with the birthdate of christ, which if one uses simple clues will find (and is accepted as fact by many) that christ birth was not on dec 25, but in the latter part of may.
in 271 ACE the roman emporor aurelianus, after defeting the palmarians of syria allowed the palmarian sun god to be worshiped in the capital of rome in an attemt to unite the romans religioous life and order... the roman name for the sun god is Sol Invictus.
On dec 25, the temple of sol invictus was dedicate in rome, and the emporor laid down a simple law. Party your toga off or be fed to the lions.
The christians, already in thin ice, adopted dec 25th as the birth of thier god's son.... and the rest is history.
aint you glad you ask?

 

AHH..Um...Never mind, my mind is in the gutter, sorry.

 

Ok, you can go with the above reason or because we can have another day off to recoup from playing!

 

Wow 2ndmouse. Maybe you should ask Ken or Dennis to change your user name to Mighty Mouse.

All that stuff must have been downright painful to put into type!

. . of course, you are probably taking a nap to recover now, and won't see this until much later . .

 

Ummmm, I think the "semi-alleged resurrection" is why we celebrate Easter?

And, just out of curiousity, do you celebrate the semi-alleged Birth of that SOMEONE or are you just in it for the presents?
ANd a few days off. Just curious!

 

hey. I just put the damn books away I'm not getting them out again...
we will address easter when it gets here.

oh hell, I'm just in it for the free food/leftovers/presents. i went for many years not observing xmas at all... but everyone told me I was being a bummer so i said oh what the hell, it IS the sun gods birthday right? where is my toga??

personally I get more out of the sunshine than I do religion anyway... so in celibration of the coming spring, party on dudes.

alleged resurection.... thats like that virgin birth story. No one will ever be able to use that as an excuse for thier pregnancy ever again. No one ever tried it, mary thought of it first and thats that.

"no honestly.. im still a virgin, it was god..."
now try that one if your pregnant, watch the reaction.... you might as well add that it happened behind a burning bush.

If I said I was talking with the almighty and he was talking to me and told me thins and that, for damn sure someone would start pumping medication in me....
not that I mind medication.... just not that kind.

have a happpy holiday, whatever you believe it to be.

 

An honest question deserves an honest answer.

And by gosh, I'm just the guy to give it to you:

I do not know.


But thank you for asking - sincerely.

 

Birth of Christ. Since God came to dwell with man, The Feast of Tabernacles, whereby David set up a tent walled court and placed the Ark of The Covenant inside. God came down in a pillar of fire, it is written that David Spoke to God, face to face, as a man would speak to a friend. Only a veil seperated them. Joseph and Mary were traveling to Jersulem for the Feast of Tabernacles, this is why there was no room in any inns. This feast occured in September. Hint, sheperds do not abide in the fields in the middle of winter. Since Satan counterfits everything God does, he invented a holiday for himself. The book of Jerimah records the decoration of a Christmas tree. This represents Nimrod reborn, the Star represents Tamuz, his illigitmate son. The ornaments represent Sun gods. Jesus was more than likely to have been concieved by the Holy Sprit on the Winter Solstice holiday, Yule is known as one of the eight holidays of witchcraft. Take nine months, for human gestation, and you have the month of September. God came to dwell with man in the desert with David, Feast of Tabernacles. Jesus, God in the flesh came to dwell with man on the Feast of tabernacles. And he will return on the Feast of Tabernacles, maybe within my lifetime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've often heard the reference to "shepherd's tending their flocks" in the Bible as proof that Christ could not have been born in December, for shepherds only tend their flocks in the spring, when the females are in labor. The birthdate was moved to December to correlate with the Pagan worship of the Winter Solstace, in the hopes it would bring them into the church. ("Goodness, look! Our saviour's birthdate is the same as your holiday! It must be a sign! Come inside and join our celebration, and empty your pockets into the collection plate!")

 

uummm yule isnt a witchcraft holiday.

Yule ran from several weeks before the winter solstice to a couple weeks after, in scandinavia.

the details of yuletide festival vary from one country to another, but have no connection with witchcraft.


unless you consider al non christian traditions witchcraft.

I'm a bit rusty on reading the good book, so give me the chaper/verse where a tree is mentioned in jerimiah...
with all due respect you need to read some unbias anchient history..

 

Heres a good question to add to this christmas thread

Jesus was born in March (for you bible thumpers, you should be able to figure this out) approx 6 BC..

Imaculate conception??? COME ON!!

Christmas, if you look into its history was started in the US and then drifted into other countries, there where other "god" things celebrated on or about that day but the germans started decorating the trees and the americans evolved (opps i mean "created") it from there.

No I dont celebrate christmas I think its kind of pointless to celebrate the "birth" of someone who don't exist (and on the wrong day)

OK let poop hit the fan

 

Do you have a lot of time on your hands ??