I have always toyed with the idea of leveling the front end of my truck.

After seeing many trucks in the real world with what appeared to have 2.5 inch leveling kits installed, it was then in my opinion that I did not like the way they appeared as it seemed in my view that the front ends of these trucks looked like they were a little higher, but not a whole lot, than the rears of the trucks.

Maybe a 2.5 inch coil spacer would not do that and those that appeared to be slightly higher like that had front lift coil springs installed. I don't really know but I am surmising here. I could be wrong here.

After seeing what appeared to be a "too high" lift in front, I was thinking a 1 to 1.5 inch just to bring it up some or even a 2 inch lift, but how would that affect the caster on my truck?

I will continue with the conversation here later but I came across this last night. This is the second time I have heard this. Let's get the conversation rolling, shall we?

 

 

Since S&B bought OUO, who made suspension systems for trucks and had this information on their now defunct website, here's a page From S&B's website on alignment specs which includes a discussion on not only caster, but camber as well.

I will also include their article on death wobble which has caster in it, but my main topic is the effect of front lift kits on caster, and the effect on the geometry of the front drive shafts as stated in the video causing wear from the axle seal on the axle shaft from the change.

What I am looking for are opinions of more knowledgeable guys and what they think the effect of a 1 to 2 inch lift will have on my truck when it comes to caster and the effect on the stub shaft geometry as mentioned in the video about the seal wear, and also the personal experiences of truck owners who have leveled their front ends.

Because it appears to be it may be more expensive doing it right by buying radius arm drops or aftermarket radius arms themselves such as Carli's radius arms. BD Diesel does make a kit to install on the factory radius arms to adjust caster after a lift in front.

Thanks.

 

I did a 3.5 front lift and 4.0 rear lift

The front end felt light on the road ..not wander...just like it seemed to drift either direction

I put in a 3.5 radius arm drop bracket and problem solved.

if I were to do it over again...I would use a drop bracket larger than the actual lift

do the shim/bushing approach to adjusting castor seems to impact camber..no free lunch....but the drop kits dont impact camber at all.

other things that are impacted by front end lift....

the track bar...axle moves to the right as you lift the truck

bump steer...once you lift you loose the general horizontal level state of the drag link...increases bump steer....pitman arm drop can fix this .

wheel goes off center..but easy to adjust

anti sway bar goes wacky....as you lift..the horizontal position of the bars end links start to tilt...looses spring force...have to increase link lengths to compensate

shocks at rest position changes....the lift will reduce the entension travel of the shocks causing rod topping off as end travel is reached. they sell shock extenders or just get longer shocks

for 4wd folks...the lift will reduce the front shaft travel range...output shaft will hit the transfer case on steep bump recoil....reclock kits fix that

if you have smart sensors like collision detect or lane assist...they become less accurate

for sunroof folks...I also suspect that a lift that returns yoyr truck to level along with an incline parking spot that changes the horizontal...could lead to water leaks in the cab as the drain gullies loose their slopes.

 

I would not mind running a 35x12.5 tire in the future... so not only looking to bring up the front end a modest bit for a more "leveled" look (not looking to completely level it as if I ever bought a camper to haul, I want some wiggle room), but I'd also like the clearance to run those wider tires.

Before I bought the current tires, Milestar Patagonia AT/Rs, in stock flavor, I went to see my tire distributor bud who brought one out in the 35x12.5 size (20") and it looked like it would probably work but his one tire shop that his company owns stated it would more than likely rub when the plow was installed on the truck.

From what I can gather from looking at this, you need 2 inches of drop for a 2.5 inch lift (leveling). So if you need to drop 2 for 2.5, what would you have to do for 1.5 inch or 2 inch spacers? This leads me to believe you would have to do something and I do not want to do the BJ caster shims after learning about it throwing off the stub driveshaft angle and that causing wear on the shaft from the seal due to the pressure from the axle position change.

Kelderman makes their 11 to 16 front end air bag suspension kit stock height and with a 1.5 inch lift on it. If that would work to fit a 35x12.5 inch in front, that would be sweet. BUT, question IS, do I have to mess with the radius arms for a drop or even install the BD Diesel 11 to 22 Radius arm cam camber adjusting kit, IS the question for only a 1.5 inch lift up front?? BD Diesel also makes a track bar drop bracket for 2 to 2.5 inch leveling kits.

You may have a point on using a drop bracket larger than the actual lift... I am not looking to run anything larger than what I stated and I am happy with the height of the rear stock suspension. Question is, can those 35s fit with just the 1.5 lift?? Or do I need 2 inches?

I am still in the research stage at this point.

Appreciate the comments Fritz...

 

When lifting you are increasing the distance between frame and axle, of course, you know this. However, when you do this, you also rotate the axle, top forward, which reduces Caster. The correct method is to increase the distance at all 4 points of the suspension, not just at the axle, but at the rear of the radius arms so that they are at the same angles as stock. Camber cannot be adjusted as its fixed at the spindles, and any camber that is built in will also change when rotating the axle. Caster is the angle across the vertical centerline of the spindle, positive has the top toward the rear of the vehicle, Negative towards the front. Your contact patch of the tire sits directly under the top of the spindle, so if the top is towards the rear a bit, so will the contact patch. This is the important part for stability. Toe causes scrub and sensitivity to input, too much in either in or out causes the tires to travel against or away from each other, increasing tire wear and disturbing tracking, slight toe in is what is normally used on everything, just enough to keep the wheels centered and not fight against each other, while caster keeps the wheel straight in parallel with the vehicle. Camber is how much tread contacts the road in relation to the horizontal. I forget positive and negative which is in or out, but the top of the tire is where this measurement takes place, Usually is between 0 and 1* and affects road crown. It combined with Caster is what helps keep the vehicle going straight with a slight crown in the road towards the shoulder, if it is set for a perfectly flat road, then the crown would cause pull to the right. On perfectly flat roads, there will be a very slight if noticeable pull left.

A proper lift will keep the factory angles of the axle to the vehicle.

 

I wanted to add this as i had a back and forth with Carli Suspension about what I wanted to achieve which is to provide a modest front end lift if 1.5 to 2 inches to allow usage of 35x12.5 tires on my 20 inch factory wheels. Even with the front lift, If I want to run 35x12.5s, it may cause problems with the factory wheels and their offset. So will need to look into that further at another time...

To summarize, I want to buy Carli's radius arms, which is a total overkill move but like the fact that they can be adjusted for caster at the radius arm, which is the same concept as BD Diesel's caster shim kit for the factory radius arms... but after all the snow I've been pushing up into the piles around here, I would not mind having a heavy duty set of radius arms on my truck. Plus using an adjustable track bar and so far Krytonite's is in the lead for me. I just do not want to add more caster via a aftermarket set of caster shims because of what I have read about it causing the axle to not sit right and cause the stub axles to be forced into the axle seals causing wear on the shaft, then a leak. This won't be cheap, but want it done right to avoid any problems down the road since my old truck is a keeper.


The AI bullet points:

• David asked Carli Suspension about achieving a 1.5" to 2.0" front lift on his F350 to fit 35x12.5 tires while maintaining rake.
• Carli stated their shortest lift is 2.5" and advised against 35" tires on stock wheels due to rubbing issues.
• Carli confirmed David can use their 2.5"/3.5" radius arms and advised an adjustable track bar is necessary for any lift over factory height.
• David acknowledged the guidance, concluding he knows the correct path for the lift installation.

Hello,


I own a 2016 F350 CCSB 6.7 Powerstroke. I need some advice here about my truck.

I want to lift the front end no more than 1.5" to 2.0" so that I can run a LT35x12.5 tire on the stock 20" OEM wheels in the summer. In winter, I run a set of factory 18" steels with a LT275/70R18 snow tire.

First off, and I know this is a general question, but is it possible to run the 35x12.5 tire with a modest lift of 1.5" to 2"? I have seen a completely leveled truck and do not want to go that route as it seems they look a little higher in front and I want to maintain a slight rake.

I plow in the winter with a 8' commercial sized plow. I put on a set of Warn locking hubs on the truck and keep the hubs locked when the plow is on.

I have heard some stories that if just a caster shim is used for the upper BJ, that it could potentially cause the stub axles to rub the housing seal due to the geometry being thrown off and causing wear, then a leak. I want to know if this is possible and can I run your lower lift height (2.5"/3.5") radius arms on my truck instead of just doing a shim kit?

The sole reason I want a front lift is to run the slightly taller and wider 35x12.5 set of tires. I'm 59 yoa and the truck is tall enough.

Also, would I need and/or is it recommended for a track bar drop bracket?

I would like to get some guidance here so that when I do this front end lift, it's done right to maintain the front end geometry, avoid any issues and to properly allow for the caster adjustment.

If there is anything else you think of or have had experience with, I'd like to know.

Appreciate your time, thanks.

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Hey David, The shortest lift we offer is 2.5". We do not recommend running 35's or any aftermarket tire on the stock wheels as this will incur rubbing on the radius arms and sway bar arms and can even rub the brake lines.

With the caster shims, we've only seen issues with stub shafts rubbing on the 2 degree shim on the 23 and newer. If you'd like to do the radius arms instead, you're more than welcome to do so! Our arms are built around factory spec so they can be ran stock or lifted!

Track bar is necessary to keep the axle straight but we do not recommend a drop bracket as this can mess with the geometry in the steering and cause bump steer. The best way to center the axle is an adjustable track bar!

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Thanks for your quick response. That's good knowing I can run the 2.5"/3.5" lift radius arms with just a slight lift in front.

Thanks for the heads up on running the wider 35x12.5 inch tires on my stock 20 inch wheels. Looks like I'd have to buy an aftermarket set of wheels with more offset then.

Another question then, do recommend a adjustable track bar with a 1.5" to 2.0" front lift or will the factory track bar work?
Thanks again for your help,



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Yes! Anytime the vehicle is lifted over factory, it's advised to utilize an extended track bar to keep the axle centered under the axle!


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Okay, guess I know what to do when I do this... won't be cheap but it'll be done right.


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Buy once cry once! It pays off!

 

the answer seems to suggest an absolute....which it is not....you dont need an adjustable track bar if you use a trackbar relocation bracket...the relocation brackets are either sold in sync with the lift height...exampl you do a 3.5 lift and use a 3.5 trackbar relocation bracket OR you can get what I have which is a multi slot adjustable relocation bracket which has a slider to select what the lift target needs to be.

I also dont agree with the tire restriction....I have seen folks put on 37"'s with a 2" level kit....no rubbing on suspension if you use a helwig f-350 anti sway bar....you just cant go off roading with it

 

I know buying a set of Carli Radius arms will not be cheap but I like the idea of a greaseable and serviceable stainless steel spherical joint, overkill and right up my alley, plus doing caster adjustments right at the radius arm like the BD Diesel caster cam kit made for the factory radius arms. Don't know that I would do a full 2.5" level in front, but that's still up for debate, but it's a lot easier to do adjustments at the radius arms than the upper BJ shims IMO and easier to buy their set of radius arms instead of having to eff around and install BD's kit on the stock arms. It won't be cheaper, but it will be right...

As to a complete lift, I am not doing that as I have zero interest at my age lifting my truck any further than it already is, minus the front a little bit to reduce the front slant some.

I'm just looking to do this front modest lift correct and avoid potential issues in the future is all. Not looking to run a huge tire, but want to make sure if I did buy a bigger 18 inch set of winter tires for the steel wheels I have for winter, that they wouldn't rub with the plow on... plus the fact the plow bounces a little when I hit seams on the expressway at speed...

And yes, they make track bar relocation brackets from other companies, as well as Carli makes radius arm drop brackets to accommodate those higher lifts, which I have zero interest in, but they decided to use an adjustable track bar instead of a track bar drop bracket. Which is better? Dunno but for my application, I like the Kryptonite track bar. Can use from stock and all the way up to 6-inch lift. Seems like the SPE trackbar bushing kit can be used with it after the bushing they supply wears out. I also found an online source for their TB with the Kryptonite BJ already installed. Plus Made in the US which you don't see often, like the Carli radius arms. And personally, I like the adjustability of the track bar to get the axle perfectly centered.

As to running those 35x12.5s, I was looking for a taller tire more so than a wider tire. So, I'd probably run a bigger metric sized LT tire and would maybe go with a LT285/65R20 which is about a half inch taller at 34.6" and wider at 11.2" or even a LT295/65R20 at 35.1" tall by 11.6" wide... but I digress...

I'd go to customwheeloffset.com which is a wealth of knowledge as one can search for their gen truck and see how different wheels (with different offsets) and sizes fits their gen truck, and what the owners did to fit them.

I appreciate your comments, Fritz. Thank you.

 

Going to contact these guys at one point and talk to someone. I think I will do the same thing with Carli as well... since that was a short back and forth with email. It's nice talking to a person to get more information.

From Kryptonite's website:

SOLID AXLE ALIGNMENT SPECIFICATIONS – Kryptonite Products

 

So looking at those alignment specs…I’m assuming the two columns are left and right sides. They recommend different, although overlapping caster specs from side to side. That kind of removes part of the draw to the Carli radius arms, being able to adjust caster on the arms instead of shimming the ball joint, you’ll still need to shim the right side for a little more caster that they recommend.

 

That's what it looks like but since there is a range there listed, I'm sure it will be different for all trucks. I do remember reading that all trucks could benefit from more caster (not saying a lot though), even stock height trucks. I'm no expert in this but that's the general consensus I have seen while looking into this. I am curious what my alignment specs are now. I have to find the print out where my truck ended up at when my buddy replaced my passenger side tie rod end because I am curious now.

 

As to me running bigger tires, that would involve research here at Custom Wheel Offset's gallery page on what offset, what size tire, what front lift, ect works and what I want to go with... but keeping it reasonable, IMO, at no taller than 35s. But this project is a long way off me.

 

keep a side note about spare fitment.

saw a lot of youtube Videos saying 37” would fit in the spare position if you deflate it.

well apparently there is a different answer for 11-16 vs 17-19 becuase 37’s deflated and x-strapped wont fit on my 2019 spare position. Must be a hitch size thing.

so I think 35’s are a sure bet for an 11-16 but check into that to see if that’s deflated or inflated.

for me there’s a $4000 dollar hitch that will hold up to 40” becuase it angles the tire ….but it has a 16k rating vs the 20k rating my current 3” has. Not the end of the world . Also have to factor mods like if the wiz bang hitch can work with sulastic shackles hd version. I’m pretty sure the track bars would work.

 

In my non-stop journey of things to do to my truck, I want to run a between the rails bed cover with a headache rack. I like the Magnum headache racks... I recently found Peragon truck bed covers. It appears that their cover, the flush fit one (forget the name but they also have one similar to the Diamondback covers), will work with the Magnum headache rack. So it would appear I can take my spare off and store it under the Peragon cover, so that is the plan for now unless I find out different. I have always wanted to get my spare out from under my truck. It is in great shape from the Carwell Products oiling I have been getting.

I like the way you think Fritz... outside the box. But maybe there is no box huh?