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Concerning cranking noise

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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 12:33 AM
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Exclamation Concerning cranking noise

Hello! TL;DR at bottom

Forgive me if anything is wrong, I'm new to cars but very interested in learning about them & willing to tackle the job at hand.

The car is a 2013 Ford Flex SE with the 3.5L v6 Ti-VCT with about 120k

I was driving my car on the highway when I can up to a stop light, it starting running rough. It took off fine & drove fine. When I got to my destination & the car stopped, it stalled & had a very hard time staying running. Eventually it stayed running for a few minutes & the MIL came on. The codes it initially set was a P0017 - Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation (Bank 1 Sensor B). Shortly after starting the car again to get to a safer spot, I scanned the codes again & a P0022 came up - Intake “A” Camshaft Position – Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2). I got the car towed since it no longer wanted to stay running. I was not able to look at the car that day, but when I got to it, the car was running smoothly but the struggle like cranking noise persisted.
When the car initially stalled the cranking sound changed drastically & now there's a quiet knocking sound but I can't remember if that was present before the issue. I've attached a video, I was in clear flood mode to hear it cranking longer, it doesn't take that long to start. I've also linked a video of the "knocking sound" it's the lower pitched sound. I've also attached a video of the CAM desired angle minus actual from my scanner, from what I've read it should stay near 0 but it's bouncing around
I'm 50% suspect of the VVT solenoids but I'm also thinking it could be the cam sprocket or the timing chain jumped. I would fire the parts cannon on the solenoids but the valve cover need to be removed to replace them & having codes for both banks is throwing me off.
The most recent maintenance was 6 plug changes & was running fine for about 3 weeks & an oil change the day before the issue started. Oil level is normal.

TL;DR
While driving, my car ran rough at a stoplight, then stalled at my destination, showing P0017 and P0022 codes. After towing, it ran smoothly but still had strange cranking noises. I suspect issues with the VVT solenoids, cam sprocket, or timing chain. Recent maintenance includes spark plug changes and an oil change. There's also a quiet knocking sound and erratic cam angle readings from my scanner.

Unable to directly upload videos as the file size is larger then the max size allowed

I've attached the video of the crank & have the YouTube links of the others
Scanner of cam deg
Possible knock
cranking noise
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 05:34 AM
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Pretty big job to tackle as a novice but can be done
You will need to replace the phasers
And while in there, the chain, tensioners and guides
Clear codes and retest
Have a pro look at it for a second opinion
It is a BIG expensive job
You want to cover all your bases before starting the repair
Keep in mind the oil pressure runs the cam phasers, so any loss of pressure and it will do what yours did
I would have a direct oil pressure gauge on the engine, and a reading to go by, before the repair and possibly put a new oil pump in it, if I didn't see loose or leaking tensioners
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by manicmechanic007
Pretty big job to tackle as a novice but can be done
You will need to replace the phasers
And while in there, the chain, tensioners and guides
Clear codes and retest
Have a pro look at it for a second opinion
It is a BIG expensive job
You want to cover all your bases before starting the repair
Keep in mind the oil pressure runs the cam phasers, so any loss of pressure and it will do what yours did
I would have a direct oil pressure gauge on the engine, and a reading to go by, before the repair and possibly put a new oil pump in it, if I didn't see loose or leaking tensioners

Are these one of those engines that have no timing marks when you take it apart?
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveMcLain
Are these one of those engines that have no timing marks when you take it apart?
It's got marks
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by manicmechanic007
Pretty big job to tackle as a novice but can be done
You will need to replace the phasers
And while in there, the chain, tensioners and guides
Clear codes and retest
Have a pro look at it for a second opinion
It is a BIG expensive job
You want to cover all your bases before starting the repair
Keep in mind the oil pressure runs the cam phasers, so any loss of pressure and it will do what yours did
I would have a direct oil pressure gauge on the engine, and a reading to go by, before the repair and possibly put a new oil pump in it, if I didn't see loose or leaking tensioners
Heya thanks for replying.
I do agree that it needs a timing job.
The thing that's throwing me off is that it set codes for both bank 1 & 2, I don't think it's likely that all 4 of the phasers & solenoids went bad at the same time.
Also is the cam degree variation that's in the scanner video normal?
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 02:03 PM
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It is if the phasers cannot control the cam timing
A loose chain is going to affect both banks
When the spring in the phaser breaks, the cams and gears just flop back and forth
Those older ones like yours have exposed springs on the phasers that have been updated
 
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Old Sep 11, 2024 | 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by manicmechanic007
It is if the phasers cannot control the cam timing
A loose chain is going to affect both banks
When the spring in the phaser breaks, the cams and gears just flop back and forth
Those older ones like yours have exposed springs on the phasers that have been updated
got it thanks, I’ll head to the dealer & pickup some parts & start the process. I’m thinking it’ll take me a few days
ill keep y’all updated
thank you very much for the guidance, appreciate it
 
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