This should probably go in the General Forum, it would get more views, but I'm just more comfortable here.

What's the deal with Trophy hunting?

Are all Americans as crazy about it as TV and magazines make you out to be? Am I way off base here? I know TV and magazines aren't always the most accurate description going.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I just don't understand it.

I see all the shows and articles, everyone is obsessed with the antler's Boone and Crocket score. Everyone wants a trophy. In this day and age when even black powder rifles have scopes and are deadly to 200 yards, is it really a trophy anymore? Why are we fixated on horns? Some of these shows even go so far as present the idea that taking a doe is somehow wrong or "inferior". I don't get it, but I've got a wide open mind if someone can explain it to me.

My biggest concern is - What are we doing to the gene pool? Every year for the last what, 100 years, we've gone out and eliminated the top bucks from the gene pool. That can't be good for the future of the species.

No offense to some of you guys, because from what I gather you take this stuff pretty seriously, but the average buck that you guys have down there in the US, and that you consider "trophy" quality, is pretty darn small where I come from. Actually, the world record white-tail (the Biggar buck) came from an area about 2hrs from my hometown. I gotta think this is directly related to hunting pressure. We have buck hunters up here, but they're the minority for sure.

I'm a meat hunter, I try to pick out a nice 2-4 year old doe. Lots of meat, and they taste the best. I've had the misfortune of trying to eat one of those "scoring" bucks a few years back when my uncle shot one. It wasn't pleasant. Just gutting the thing sucked, let's just say he was a little "ripe".

We feed big old bulls to the dogs, and yet we hunt for big old bucks, does that make sense?

I guess the next step is on to "other" animals.

What are you gonna do with a sheep/bear/cougar/wolf?

Make a rug? You can't eat it.

It makes no sense to me. I've seen some really nicely done taxidermy, and sometimes I think I wouldn't mind having one, but then I just think, why?

I don't begrude anyone a once in a lifetime type hunt, but a lot of guys go every year, especially for bear. I'd be the last guy to try and take away your right to hunt these animals, but I just don't get it.

except-

Population control. That makes sense I guess. Wildlife is a valuable commodity now, it has to be managed.

Anyhoo, enough rather incoherent rambling.

Thoughts?

Waxy

 

One word, "EGO". Man by nature is very competitive. That's why we build million dollar homes, drive luxury cars, wear designer clothes, etc. As a species, we tend to measure success of one another by the belongings they accumulate. Bigger is better, especially in hunting. Just a theory.

 

We have just gone through an economic spell of conspicuous consumption. There is also the economic problem of agriculture. If we can get those fools to pay enough to make it more rewarding than rowcrop type farming, then OK. We remember down here that it is farming and the herds are managed with proper population control and culling. We have more space so it looks better than some of the "game farm" situations in the Midwest, but it is just the same. We have a situation with all the rest of the world that moved here and wants to be part of the Texas image. Just lok how George W. works it. His neighbors still don't have a tax base that supports the infrastructure of the town.

 

I grew up hunting and have continued to do so all my adult life. As kids, before we were even allowed to carry a centerfire rifle, my father and an uncle took us with them and passed their beliefs and knowledge on to us during actual hunting and around the campfires. Meat was the name of the game. You only took bucks if they happened to offer the only shot towards the end of the hunting trip and made sure the first thing you did was cut out the glands when the animal was down. If they had been running or excited, even that made no difference. We knew what the rut meant and what it did to meat in the male species. Old, big antlered bucks were passed on simply because of meat quality. While it may seem thrilling to take a Royal Bull Elk, anyone who eats venison on a regular basis can tell it was a tough old bull and not a mature cow at first bite.

That leads to another possibility of why people strive to take bucks, the bigger the better, and that’s size. If you don’t know how to dress and butcher venison, it doesn’t really matter what size or gender you kill and eat, it’ll all taste like crap. Antelope and open range deer are probably the best example of that issue as they consume a lot of sagebrush. If you don’t carefully field dress them, with at least 5 gallons of water, and then bone all the meat out, ending up with only steaks and burger containing no fat or suet, you might as well leave it for the coyotes ‘cause it’ll taste like you’re eating solid sagebrush. I bone everything out and anyone who has eaten a skillet hot boned-out fillet of anything wild is continually begging on his or her hands and knees for more.

The reason this subject fits better in the Pigpen and not general conversation is the personal motivation behind trophy hunting. Showing off horns, pelts, hides, mounted trophies and other examples of ‘manly accomplishments’ are, to all but those who totally live their lives in the outdoors (and I’ve known two of those rapidly disappearing people), examples of pure insecurity. Talk to outfitters who do it for a living and listen to them disgustingly relate the types of personalities who ‘have’ to have a trophy animal. It has nothing to do with eating the meat, in many cases they don’t even want the meat, it’s purely for bragging rights.

I could rant on for days about gene pools producing lesser quality animals by eliminating brood stock, game management, blackpowder and archery seasons (both with current equipment equal in technology to the old .30-30) and how we now have more game than at the close of the 1900s, but it still comes down to one thing, personal responsibility. Having seen Royal Elk racks at garage sales, ragged coyote and other fur coats in the trash and been forced to listen to general conversation from someone who has a big rack or fish dominating their living quarters, I always think why? Then I listen to more of the conversation and understand why. The conversational depth is about the same level as a beer joint, even from those who don’t drink.

 

Waxy

 

My thoughts exactly George.

We had a long talk with the one of the local butchers this year. It was way to warm to hang our Antelope in the garage as we normally do, so we had to take it to him to hang. He told us stories of guys dropping of animals unfieldressed, hacked up beyond recognition, even one guy that dropped off an animal that was full of maggots. He won't even accept wild game anymore from anyone he doesn't know.

Then they wonder why their sausage sucks and venison tastes so bad.

My venison and antelope is my PRIZED POSSESSION. I LOVE the hunt, but the quality of the meat is just as important. Whenever possible I try to take standing head shots, and unless it's desperation hour, I won't take a running shot.

It is immediately and very carefully field dressed, throughly washed, and cooled. It is butchered after hanging for a couple of days to produce steaks, cutlets, roasts, stew meat, jerky and sausage. I am METICULOUS when it comes to eliminating fat and sinew. GARBAGE IN GARBGE OUT.

I have never served venison to someone and had them turn it away, in fact, like yourself, they usually end up begging for more.
When properly cared for, wild game is superior to beef IMHO.

Like I said, I don't get it.

Waxy

 

Hi Waxy,

I pretty much agree with your rant; that is, I don't really understand the fixation on antlers.

But I'm not quite so sure about the gene pool, as it relates to animal size. It would seem Mother Nature is more of an arbiter of that. Animal size in white tail deer goes from smallish in the southern states to monstrous in the northern climes. I would attribute that to winter kill mainly, the real survival of the fittest.

Here in Minnesota we've had about three warm, meek winters and we're awash in whitetails. It wouldn't surprise me to hear the average size of the animals is smaller in just that short time span.

Aren't trophy bucks, the grizzled monsters, past their prime and haven't they already made their contribution to the pool?

Not much science here in my thoughts, just my 12 points worth, non-typical.

regards

 

I will jump in here and mostly agree, but you guys are wrong on one point according to all I have learned. A bucks horns actually peak when he is about a 4 year old in most cases. If he is on good feed it may be 5 or 6 and I suspect may vary regionally. I am a meat hunter too and really haven't hunted much for a few years because I have so much meat given to me. I agree on an animal that has been run. I love antelope but never shot one that had run more that a few hundred yards. Also wounded animals meat can be bad because of the adreniline release, so a good clean kill shot is a must.
Most states have good game management so population control and genetics are always considedered I think. If you let the numbers get too high you just get more coyotes eating fawns so nature can take care of itself to some degree. Deer numbers cycle and some states issue extra doe licences when the numbers are high.
I personally prefer a dry 2 year old doe for good venicen but I sure wouldn't pass up a shot on a record buck.
I also bone my meat out at camp. And my antelope is very tasty, better than beef. It also lets me leave all the waste for the wild critters. Why take something off the land and throw it in the garbage at home if you can leave it in the food chain?

 

Antelope backstrap, about two-three inches in diameter, 1/4" thick, lightly dusted with flour/salt/pepper right out of a hot skillet with coyotes howling back at the field dressing site and I’d kill every last man of Bin Laden’s group with the camp axe just to get a second helping.

 

Yep, exactly correct.

A buck may only be in his prime, and therefore likely to mate, for a period of 1-3 years.

If that animal is harvested right before the rut in his first prime year, his genes don't get passed on.

If it's harvest in its 3rd year, then it has contributed.

What if it was harvested before it reached prime potential? Many bucks are. I've taken a nice little spike on occasion, they taste great if they're about 2 and under. Who knows, it might have been the next world record.

There are actually zones in Alberta where hunters can ONLY shoot bucks. I find this unbelievable, but I'm new to the province and haven't managed to track down an answer as to why yet.

In my experience, does always outnumber bucks, usually 10 to 1 or more in any given area.

I think it would be fascinating to go back to the turn of the century or the middle 1800's and see what deer and antelope herds looked like pre-European times. It would be extremely interesting to see how our "management" of the animals has affected their evolution (holding breath on that one).

Waxy

P.S. We usually give any scraps and bones to the neighbor for dog food/treats.

 

My grandfather was born in 1897 and in our very last hunt together he told me what it was like hunting in the early 20th century. Surpisingly, there were hardly any whitetail. Moose were plentiful, and apparently the two don't mix well. Whitetail seem to thrive on civilization, i.e., clearcutting, open crop fields. Deer are quite plentiful in urban areas. From that I would gather whitetails have adapted nicely to encroaching humans.

But evolutionarily, haven't the largest racks been harvested mainly during the past 50 years? It doesn't mean the bodies were necessarily bigger I suppose, and there are other factors to consider, but it indicates to me at the very least whitetails are doing quite well.

 

Yeah, I guess I hadn't considered the effects that agriculture has had on the deer population.

There's no doubt deer that fed on grain and peas are larger (and tastier) than those that live in heavily wooded or pasture type areas. I guess I take it for granted that deer have become so accustomed to feeding in agricultural crops. In fact, I bank most of my hunting trips around their twice daily trek to the fields to eat.

I would guess there's a lot of validity to the idea the this increased nutrition has increased the size of the average deer, and therefore the size of the average rack.

What the heck, all us humans are fatter now, it only makes sense the deer would be too.

Waxy

 

Waxy, I'm with you on this one.

You can't eat horns. Once you have one mounted, then you have dust it, move it when you move, and hope somebody wants it when you don't have room for it anymore.

I'll take a doe that was shot and dropped in 20 yards anyday over a buck that was chased 2+ miles.

 

Finally a group of hunters that are realistic. I hunt for meat, not trophies. Although the sight of a heavy racked monster buck will definitely get me excited, the idea of having to drag that thing out of the woods to my truck isn't exactly pleasing. Keep my deer under 200lbs and I'm happy, and the meat isn't all gristly and tough.

 

...Personally, I no longer kill for sport...