thermostat question
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
was out looking at the engine temperature sender to see if there was any corrosion on it. low and behold the wire coming out of the harness from the firewall the wire was bare about 1/2".
I put some electrical tape on it for the time being. I was hoping this would change the behaviour as it may have been touching metal during running. Nope...still shows just barely up off C
after the engine opens the thermostat. I have both the sender and sensor coming next week for replacement.
I put some electrical tape on it for the time being. I was hoping this would change the behaviour as it may have been touching metal during running. Nope...still shows just barely up off C
after the engine opens the thermostat. I have both the sender and sensor coming next week for replacement.
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
Never fails. Put thermostat in, spend endless time fiddle-farting around deciding if it works or not.
Or... TEST before install with thermometer & a gradually heated pot of water & know for sure.
But that's too easy.
By the way, my tested Motocraft 192* cracks the seat at 190* & is fully open by 195*
Also, there is no computer control of the mechanical fan in these trucks. Purely mechanical lock based on ambient temp.
Or... TEST before install with thermometer & a gradually heated pot of water & know for sure.
But that's too easy.
By the way, my tested Motocraft 192* cracks the seat at 190* & is fully open by 195*
Also, there is no computer control of the mechanical fan in these trucks. Purely mechanical lock based on ambient temp.
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
I brought the truck up to operating temp after disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes to let the KAM memory stuff dissipate. Thermostat had opened.
I shut it off and then performed the KOEO test (Innova 3145) with the key on the ON position but not started. Values reported:
11
10
15
Then started the truck and perform the KOER test. Values reported:
10
41
77
Note that I forgot to do the gas pedal to the floor but did the steering wheel left/right 1/4 turn and brake pedal depress.
The 41 indicates that the O2 sensor is suspect. correct?
I shut it off and then performed the KOEO test (Innova 3145) with the key on the ON position but not started. Values reported:
11
10
15
Then started the truck and perform the KOER test. Values reported:
10
41
77
Note that I forgot to do the gas pedal to the floor but did the steering wheel left/right 1/4 turn and brake pedal depress.
The 41 indicates that the O2 sensor is suspect. correct?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
I brought the truck up to operating temp after disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes to let the KAM memory stuff dissipate. Thermostat had opened.
I shut it off and then performed the KOEO test (Innova 3145) with the key on the ON position but not started. Values reported:
11
10
15
Then started the truck and perform the KOER test. Values reported:
10
41
77
Note that I forgot to do the gas pedal to the floor but did the steering wheel left/right 1/4 turn and brake pedal depress.
The 41 indicates that the O2 sensor is suspect. correct?
I shut it off and then performed the KOEO test (Innova 3145) with the key on the ON position but not started. Values reported:
11
10
15
Then started the truck and perform the KOER test. Values reported:
10
41
77
Note that I forgot to do the gas pedal to the floor but did the steering wheel left/right 1/4 turn and brake pedal depress.
The 41 indicates that the O2 sensor is suspect. correct?
Its okay, I had the same issue when I diagnosed a 1991 ford ranger. I bought a innova that counted the flashes for me and reported them on the screen LCD
However, i just googled your innova, you have the same one!! SO now im stumped. I did a google, and found this:
So you can safely ignore the code 10.
So, you have no KAM power to your EEC-IV or its being interupted intermittently, I would check your fuse in the fuse box for the KAM related one
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
How Eec-iv codes work, you want to work on key on, engine off before you work on the rest. Since your truck ccant save anything to its keep alive memory, your truck will basically always run like its battery cable has been pulled and never be optimal until that is fixed. Since that is a big deal, and its in the key on engine off, you fix that issue, then re-run KOEO and KOER codes, you should find you only get code 11 which is ideal, then you address whatever codes come up in KOER at that time! Fun!
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
Progress....after installing the Motorcraft engine temperature sender once the truck gets up to operating temp (192 deg) - verified using my laser thermometer on the neck of where the coolant temp
sensor is located, the dash guage is now reporting in the Normal range ...near the middle of the guage.
Now onto the O2 sensor replacement and the code 41 error.
sensor is located, the dash guage is now reporting in the Normal range ...near the middle of the guage.
Now onto the O2 sensor replacement and the code 41 error.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
Progress....after installing the Motorcraft engine temperature sender once the truck gets up to operating temp (192 deg) - verified using my laser thermometer on the neck of where the coolant temp
sensor is located, the dash guage is now reporting in the Normal range ...near the middle of the guage.
Now onto the O2 sensor replacement and the code 41 error.
sensor is located, the dash guage is now reporting in the Normal range ...near the middle of the guage.
Now onto the O2 sensor replacement and the code 41 error.
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
NGK coolant temperature sensor replaced. old came out fairly easily. lost a few ounces of coolant...nothing to worry about.
will try out the engine now to see if it gets any better mileage...ie: reaches closed loop when at normal operating temp.
will try out the engine now to see if it gets any better mileage...ie: reaches closed loop when at normal operating temp.
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Tuned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 337
Likes: 100
From: Salkum
ya ya....I squeezed the upper rad hose (which was purdy cold at initial startup)....several times during the running after startup. held the idle at 1500-2000 for 5 minutes and then checked things. topped up coolant as needed. I am measuring temp of engine on the metal behind the thermostat housing. it got as high as 162F. right around then, the upper hose started to get warm.
what I am noticing is that the viscous fan is running ALL THE TIME from startup. This is not right I don't think. It should kick on as needed and as controlled
by the ECU....no?
temp guage on dash did rise to about 1/4 on the guage toward the middle and then dropped back to near the C. so am seeing similar behaviour as I was with the motorad. no leaks of coolant around the
thermostat housing or hoses attached from water pump.
coolant being used is prestone 50/50 water/antifreeze/coolant.
what I am noticing is that the viscous fan is running ALL THE TIME from startup. This is not right I don't think. It should kick on as needed and as controlled
by the ECU....no?
temp guage on dash did rise to about 1/4 on the guage toward the middle and then dropped back to near the C. so am seeing similar behaviour as I was with the motorad. no leaks of coolant around the
thermostat housing or hoses attached from water pump.
coolant being used is prestone 50/50 water/antifreeze/coolant.
As for your viscous fan, they will always be spinning when the engine is running. The thing to look for, is it spinning at the same rpm as the engine.
When they are cold they tend to run at full RPM for 30 seconds or so until they start slipping. Then as they get hot is when they should lockup to achieve full RPM
Thread Starter
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
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From: New Dominion, PE
I know you got everything back together but for thermostats, I try to find the ones that have the air bleed valve built in. If I can’t find one, then I drill a 1/64 hole in them. That way you never have to worry about getting all the air out.
As for your viscous fan, they will always be spinning when the engine is running. The thing to look for, is it spinning at the same rpm as the engine.
When they are cold they tend to run at full RPM for 30 seconds or so until they start slipping. Then as they get hot is when they should lockup to achieve full RPM
As for your viscous fan, they will always be spinning when the engine is running. The thing to look for, is it spinning at the same rpm as the engine.
When they are cold they tend to run at full RPM for 30 seconds or so until they start slipping. Then as they get hot is when they should lockup to achieve full RPM
I don't think my fan is doing the slow down ie: rotating less than the engine after startup. Hard to determine this for sure... rotating the fan blades when it's off spins just around
a 1/4 turn after throwing it.
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
well, we are getting somewhere now....just fired up the truck up, let it get up to temp, thermostat opened up and now the truck won't run / idle properly at all. Only
change, new engine coolant temperature sensor. this means the foobar O2 sensor is now coming into the foray and causing the ECU to not be able to set a
proper air/fuel mixture I presume.
change, new engine coolant temperature sensor. this means the foobar O2 sensor is now coming into the foray and causing the ECU to not be able to set a
proper air/fuel mixture I presume.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
I know you got everything back together but for thermostats, I try to find the ones that have the air bleed valve built in. If I can’t find one, then I drill a 1/64 hole in them. That way you never have to worry about getting all the air out.
As for your viscous fan, they will always be spinning when the engine is running. The thing to look for, is it spinning at the same rpm as the engine.
When they are cold they tend to run at full RPM for 30 seconds or so until they start slipping. Then as they get hot is when they should lockup to achieve full RPM
As for your viscous fan, they will always be spinning when the engine is running. The thing to look for, is it spinning at the same rpm as the engine.
When they are cold they tend to run at full RPM for 30 seconds or so until they start slipping. Then as they get hot is when they should lockup to achieve full RPM
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
The motorcraft one has a small brass punch-out at the top (I oriented it so it was in that position when installed). I believe that is the bleed valve.
I don't think my fan is doing the slow down ie: rotating less than the engine after startup. Hard to determine this for sure... rotating the fan blades when it's off spins just around
a 1/4 turn after throwing it.
I don't think my fan is doing the slow down ie: rotating less than the engine after startup. Hard to determine this for sure... rotating the fan blades when it's off spins just around
a 1/4 turn after throwing it.
the 1/4 turn sounds like its got drag but not too much, are you giving it a good attempt or just moving it and letting go?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 5,219
Likes: 805
well, we are getting somewhere now....just fired up the truck up, let it get up to temp, thermostat opened up and now the truck won't run / idle properly at all. Only
change, new engine coolant temperature sensor. this means the foobar O2 sensor is now coming into the foray and causing the ECU to not be able to set a
proper air/fuel mixture I presume.
change, new engine coolant temperature sensor. this means the foobar O2 sensor is now coming into the foray and causing the ECU to not be able to set a
proper air/fuel mixture I presume.
Also, your positioning of the jiggle pin is correct, you want it at the 12 o clock position in vertical installs, or closest to the "truck" at 12 o clock laying flat.
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More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 653
Likes: 105
From: New Dominion, PE
Unhook the O2 to take it out of the occasion, at cold start the O2 is not doing anything for your truck. you may not even have a heated O2 in your year? Confirm how many wires your O2 has? Also, unhook the new ECT to confirm if its causing any fueling issues. The ECT and IAT (Intake air temp) are used at startup for fuel trims and so is your MAP (manifold air pressure) which is vital you have no vacuum leaks for your MAP to control fuel right. This year truck the IAT should be mounted in the intake, and they are known to get EGR gummy and fail/not read right.
Also, your positioning of the jiggle pin is correct, you want it at the 12 o clock position in vertical installs, or closest to the "truck" at 12 o clock laying flat.
Also, your positioning of the jiggle pin is correct, you want it at the 12 o clock position in vertical installs, or closest to the "truck" at 12 o clock laying flat.
it is a non-heated O2 sensor. 2 wire. bosch replacement. The old came out surprisingly easy. Just got the truck up to temp, hit the O2 sensor with some PB blaster and used a 22mm open ended wrench
and gave it some oomph. came right out. the plug was absolutely covered in grease/oil. cleaned the connector up good (receptacle). put some never seize on the threads on the new bosch one and
screwed it in. gave it some oomph to tighten. (will check again after a heat/cool cycle). reconnected the plug and secured it to the wire harness for the starter. Will re-test after supper and report
results.
Note that the truck was running PERFECT before doing the ECT sensor and engine coolant temp sender. so this has to the the ECU attempting to do the mixture using the sensor values and having a problem
with the O2. Note that I had an error 41 when I pulled my codes.