How do you take off the duals on a 1973 F600?
Specifically: How does the lug bolt work? Should it be fastened solid?

I have a flat tire on one of the duals, I thought I could do the usual; Jack it up, put blocks under it, loosen the nuts and take the tire off.
But the bolt seems to be turning, after being loosened part way. I have an impact wrench, bought a 1 and a half inch impact socket and it worked, it loosened the nut. But now the bolt is turning, the nut isn't off yet.
Why is the bolt turning? I assumed it would be fastened solid to something.
What does the other end of the bolt look like?
Could this be a square shoulder? Do I just need to push it so the square shoulder catches? Or is something broken, if the bolt turns?
When I get this off, I should probably buy new bolts and nuts.
Could you tell me where to buy new bolts, or the specs, so I could find new bolts that are not rusted?
Thank you for all your help!


Duals on 73 F600, nut is loosened, now bolt is loose

 

As a fellow '73 F600 owner, I'll warn you to not do as I did and assume what "normal" is: the wheel nuts/studs on the left side of the truck are left-hand threaded.

We have Budd wheel fasteners on the rear; the studs are also nuts that retain the inner dual. I know next to nothing about them, but perhaps a vid will help? This wheel has two seized outer Budd nuts, and he dismounted the wheel and then addressed them.



Inner Budd nut:




"Pork Chop":





3/4" drive 13/16" square impact socket:






I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in shortly.

(I wish I could figure out how to resize images here and have the resize "stick".)

 

http://www.carquestprofessionals.com...parts_2008.pdf

Page 16.

The inner cap nut holds the inner wheel to the hub, threading on to the studs on the end of the axle.

The outer cap nut holds the outer wheel, threading on threads on the outside of the inner cap nut.

 

Thank you for the helpful info. It worked, I got the tire off! Now I understand how it works. I'll explain it for the next person reading this:
There is an inner bolt/stud, like on any car or truck, connected firmly to the hub, it doesn't move.
Bolted into that inner stud is an outer bolt or stud. (I guess they call it a standard inner cap nut, but it looks like a bolt to me)
That outer bolt is the one with an 11/16 inch square end.
If you turn that bolt with square end, it will unscrew from the inner stud and come off, which is what you want.
The large nut holding the tire on, is 1 and 1/2 inch that screws into that outer bolt.
When that bolt and nut came loose, as in my video above, that is actually just fine. You want that bolt to come loose, to get the rim off.
The answer is: Just keep turning that nut or that nut and bolt attached together, until they come loose, on all 6 bolts. The nut may not come off the bolt, but that's fine, the outer bolt will turn off.
Thank you to 85e150 for the BWP parts list from Carquest and the specific page. I plan to buy a new outer bolt, since the old one has some rust and the bolt won't come off, but I assume it will with the pork chop.
I believe the part number that I want is: M-3396. Note that it is threaded on the INSIDE, too. Thank you, that's all very helpful!
I just have one more question:
To re-assemble, how tight? What is the torque for the bolt? (Without anti-sieze) The one with 11/16 square end.
Looks like they call it the Standard Inner Cap Nut (looks like a bolt to me)
- What is the torque for the 1 and 1/2 inch nut with anti-seize?
I believe I want anti-seize on the nut, since there was rust on that.
Thank you!


Note that there are thread both INSIDE and outside on this. This screws on the stud, and then you put the large nut on this bolt

 

 

I’m going to add to this some knowledge I’ve gained from years of working with this in the trucking field




When ever is event happens replace both pieces, even if rust caused the nuts to seize together they will now have gaulded threads that will continue to cause problems in the future
Looking at the photo one can see the damaged threads in the inner nut were it spun on the main stud, trying to reuse it can result in damaging the threads on the main stud requiring it to be replaced
That requires removing the brake drum and sometimes removing the brake shoes to gain enough room the install a new stud
When removing the outer nut if the inner nut/stud spins loose stop, remove the rest on the out nuts and then spin the two seized nuts off. Continuing to spin the two seized nuts with the wheels held together can and will push the main stud out of the hub, if you’re lucky the stud can be drawn back into the hub. If your not lucky the stud will fall into the brake drum requiring its removal
Worst case and I have seen it happen is the main stud pushes out of the hub past the shank and starts spinning itself, now you have two seized nuts stuck on a spinning stud. At that point a simple tire change has turned into lot of work with a smoke wrench

Also that U shaped bevel on the inner nuts flange tells me it’s worn out and should have been replaced long ago

 

Let the arguments begin. The Budd 450 lb torque rating is dry torque. Anti-seize is not to be used. As described below. Stu

https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment...bunking-a-myth

 

Agree that the 450 ft/lb figure is for dry threads. As one who has had a cross-wrench bend and break whilst changing a tire on a fast-traffic bridge, I'm firmly in the camp of "always use anti-sieze", "always use Lock-tite", etc.

Regarding Mr. Rohlwing's article referenced, this one line has me discount the entire premise he attempts to make:
In fact, the opposite occurs: reducing the thread friction means more wheel/hub clamping force is applied per unit of nut torque applied; this is why when using a thread lubricant the dry-torque spec must be reduced, to avoid over stretching the fasteners ("torque to yield") on fastener applications designed for repeat usage.

(now we can move on to the "best" oil brand and viscosity, and the "wrong" spark plugs to never use . . . etc. )

 

As anticipated, this subject has been debated here time and again. There’s always those who think they know better than the manufacture. Stu

 

If the manufacturer was so smart, we wouldn't have recalls and TSBs, plus the many work arounds people have to do.

 

You foreshadowed debate: "Let the arguments begin." I'm game, I love giving my opinion.

Manufacturers don't know best 100% of the time. Remember V8 timing chain gears that were aluminum hubs and a nylon-like substance for the gear teeth? One of my favorites.

A lot of official mfgr advice is legal CYA. It's simpler for them to say, "one-time use, torque to yield" and then push liability to the user if that advice wasn't heeded. It's not necessarily the best engineering.

For me, Mr. Rohlwing's entire article's advice is invalidated by the one statement I called out above.

 

I’m confused
He says this about stud pilot wheels



He says this about hub pilot wheels



How does the same product over tighten one and under tighten the other

I’m sure that every tire tech tightening wheels nuts with a 1” air gun capable of producing over 1000 lbs torque know exactly when to let off to achieve 450 lbs torque

 

Almost every big truck wheel I've had changed, from Dayton style, Stud Pilot, to Hub Pilot, the guy changing them used a big air wrench, and kept beating on them until he decided to stop. No one ever torqued.

Also, I've changed all the above myself. I've used a 4 way lug wrench with a pipe, or a power handle with a pipe, and when I was where one was available, a big air wrench.

I learned one thing from all that, I never wanted a job changing big truck tires.

 

X2 on that. I helped my dad with some tires. He eventually bought a Schramm V4 air compressor and a Toyo 1" impact wrench.

As noted above, you just hold that trigger till you think it's good enough.

He never had any issue with the cap nut/inner cap nut.

Prior to this, it was the HD 4 way wrench and length of pipe, each tire taking about 6 months off his life.

And the bead-breaker hammer:

https://www.northerntool.com/product...-51136-5345331

As to the inner/out cap nuts, I think if they are clean and in good condition, that's all you need. Anti-seize or oil? Never saw it. But he never had a wheel-off incident. Broke the axle housing once but the duals stayed with the truck as he caught it right away.

But yes, a job working truck tires: "no thanks, I'll starve...."

 

My 93 F-800 has stud mount wheels, we replaced all of the tires last year along with swapping on a set of aluminum Alcoa’s
The old wheels hadn’t been off the truck in over 8 years, had it at a neighbors shop and asked if he had a big air gun (assumed he did since he owned semi grain trucks), he handed me a Milwaukee Fuel 1/2” drive 18 volt impact with a 3/4” adapter and lug nut socket. I laughed at him, then used that battery impact to rip the lug nuts off easier than any air gun ever did, it pushed two of the studs in when the inner nut spun, now I have one.