My highboy has always had starting issues and after new everything (battery then two batteries starter 2x relay and every possible combination of new old and welding cables)

I tried putting a 460 pmgr starter in it as a last resort and while it would bolt up it won't fit against the block so after putting in enough ground wires to make it look like a rats nest including one straight to the starter I'm now getting slow cranking and its probably killing the ignition while it's cranking anyway which has been a recurring issue with it

It won't start unless it's jump started even when I'm reading fully charged on the batteries or one battery as I've tried that at every step too

Engine spins over by hand fine runs as great as a carb that went through a fire with minimal work after will allow

I don't want to get an aftermarket mini starter or something but a stock starter off of a different vehicle seemed like a nice in-between step

fwiw I'm not sure the gear depth would have worked since it seemed like it would kick out too shallow but it did bolt up for someone trying something similar

 

What engine, and what is the timing set at?

 

390 and 12-14 degrees btdc

 

A stock starter should work just fine, I'd forget anything else.

Are the batteries new? or just different. 90% of the time a bad battery fit's your problem description.

What happens when you jump the solenoid? from one post to the other bypassing it.

Is your ground cable direct to the block?

Are your battery cables pressed ends, soldered or bolt on?

Your timing should be okay there, but I'd back it off a bit and see if it helps.

 

Brand new batteries like half a dozen times in the like 4 years since I got it

A ground from the batteries to the alternator then I split it off to the frame, starter and the block with the intent to remove some or at least make it not a rats nest once I got it working

They're crimp on style for the main one resistance measurements across all of it were .1 ohm

 

The ground should always go directly to the block . if you split it with full size cable it probably shouldn't matter. if there's any question you can run a jumper cable from the battery to the block. see if it helps.

The solenoid may not be passing full amperage either.

 

I'll run it to the block and see if that matters but I'm honestly wondering if I have an engine problem at this point because 2 verified good starters 3 batteries a half dozen battery cables and I think 3 solenoids at this point shouldn't all be bad

 

If you think motor issue pull the plugs and try and crank it over by hand on the crank bolt if it is hard you know the issue.

After by hand cranking try the starter and see how that goes.
What is the back ground on the motor used junk yard or rebuilt and by who?
Dave ----

 

I did the motor and have spun it by hand with a wrench on the snout without pulling the plugs moved easy as it should

 

Doubtful engine problem based on what has been stated. Stock starter is fine. Insure good battery cables of proper size. I never buy over-the-counter aluminum copper clad (looks like copper but isn't) china cables for big V8 engines. I have true copper cables made at a local shop and upsize them from stock. I also don't trust over the counter starters for older engines. The market is flooded with china crap which has caused so much grief for people. I have an original starters and alternators rebuilt at a trusted local shop. You may need to do a cranking/starter system voltage drop test. You can Google it.

 

Does it kick back when trying to start it? You might have timing problem such as sheared pin on dizzy gear, spun balancer or timing chain jump.

 

These have a very simple and dependable starting system, there's little doubt your problem is simple it's just a matter of finding it.

If your engine runs okay and has been like this for a whale then it's not your problem. if you had something causing it to turn hard it would seize pretty fast.

Don't forget to retard the timing and see if it makes a difference, don't trust your mark on the damper. a started doesn't have enough power to fight the engine.

 

in addition to what 440 said above, if it starts when you jump it, then it's not any engine issues. When you jump start it, where are you connecting the jumper cables? Depending on where you are connecting, it could provide clues as to where the issue is.

 

And the particular problem is strictly slow cranking? Does this slow cranking result in a no-start condition where the battery finally drains? Or does it start after a bit of cranking?

As someone said, new parts are a crapshoot these days. Even batteries in fact, which actually still have a relatively untarnished reputation luckily. But starter relays and battery cables? Not so much...

I've heard too, that they are supposed to fit. Perhaps it was just as simple as re-clocking the body so that the solenoid was away from the block? Assuming it's clockable that is, which many are.

Unfortunately, even with all the new and supposedly good stuff, there is likely still too much going on here. You do need grounds, but they need to be good and you don't want too many (as in, ANY!) multiple joints and connections between the battery and starter/block. All the others are fine, but only as supplemental grounds. If you have not already, keep the ground cable straight to the starter area.
What gauge cables are you using for the battery positive, negative, and starter?

As was said by dlburch already, if it cranks fine when jumped, then stop replacing parts on the starter side of things and concentrate on the battery and relay side.
To double up on dl's question, where are you jumping to, when it's successful? Straight to the starter? Just to the battery like normal? Or somewhere else?

If directly to the battery, then it's NOT your battery cables. It's NOT your starter or starter cable. And it's NOT your starter relay. It's either multiple deficient batteries, or your positive or negative cables.
If to the starter relay's battery post, then it's NOT anything past that, and can only be on the battery and cable side.
If it's to the starter side of the starter relay, it could be all of the above and/or the starter relay itself. But this also adds the possibility (though pretty remote in my estimation) of a bad starter circuit from the key. That's the Red w/blue stripe wire on the "S" post of the starter relay. But if it's got even enough voltage to energize the relay, the other stuff should do the rest.

Sounds like it's fine then. But as suggested, retard the timing even further, or better yet, remove the plugs. This is just to eliminate excess compression as your culprit.
Still sounds like the battery and cable side of things, but you're still at the stage of ruling things out.
Unfortunately, every new or used part you add to the mix, means more things you now have to rule out again. Which is why testing is better than replacing, now more than ever.

Agreed, but I like the aftermarket stuff too. However, don't think any further about another starter, since yours works fine when jumped.
You can revisit the starter if it turns out that you were jumping to the battery and it was only two good batteries that could crank it! Like a diesel!

How does it crank when you jump it? Does it spin normally? Does it fire right up? Or is it still a little slow?

Paul

 

A How To for the voltage drop test found in the 80 - 86 How To truck area
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...w-starter.html
Dave ----