Superduty factory shut down
#181
10-27-2023, 03:57 PM
Fleet Mechanic
Question, would you consider the Toyota Corolla sales in the world a fad? Would you consider the F series trucks a fad? Because the model Y recently became the best selling CAR in the world…not just EV. Hardly a fad. The F series was 4th which is great but 500k units less then a model Y / Corolla/Rav4.
Your probably reading commentary from a few manufactures like Ford/ GM who are expressing their view now vs three years ago when they were selling a pitch to the public and shareholders and now have to save face again because non of their predictions have materialized and they are now making excuses why they are losing billions a year.
but if you look at the data , more %of EV’s sold go up every year. % of charging stations - go up every year. These are trends that will be with us for the next generation.
If you want to talk about the govt Involvement by statistics then that is ok but I will point out I have bought diesel many times this year with govt intervention. How- because in Georgia our governor has suspended the gas tax several times for a few ones at a time and has saved me $.30 roughly per gallon. Thanks govt!!!
Listening to Farley and Barra complain/ make excuses why they aren’t selling EVs is like listening to the CEOs of Sears and Kmart. They will make excuses why other companies are eating their lunch.
Your probably reading commentary from a few manufactures like Ford/ GM who are expressing their view now vs three years ago when they were selling a pitch to the public and shareholders and now have to save face again because non of their predictions have materialized and they are now making excuses why they are losing billions a year.
but if you look at the data , more %of EV’s sold go up every year. % of charging stations - go up every year. These are trends that will be with us for the next generation.
If you want to talk about the govt Involvement by statistics then that is ok but I will point out I have bought diesel many times this year with govt intervention. How- because in Georgia our governor has suspended the gas tax several times for a few ones at a time and has saved me $.30 roughly per gallon. Thanks govt!!!
Listening to Farley and Barra complain/ make excuses why they aren’t selling EVs is like listening to the CEOs of Sears and Kmart. They will make excuses why other companies are eating their lunch.
Perhaps somebody shouldn't take Elon musk word for it,
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a44600661/is-tesla-model-y-the-worlds-best-selling-car-nope-not-even-close/
Currently the Tesla is a throwaway vehicle any of the models.
I may be wrong but I believe they have slash prices five or six times in recent memory, but add to the fact that the government gives you thousands of dollars credits for buying EV..... As I said, a throwaway vehicle.
And more lies from Elon. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
#182
10-27-2023, 04:05 PM
Cargo Master
Great. Use the best product for you. And be happy for others that use something else for what they do. No need to talk down to people. Life’s too short. Enjoy towing 30k. That’s awesome. Others will enjoy driving 95% of their miles within 300 miles of their house and charge 300 miles for $7 at home. Both sets of technology are great
#183
10-27-2023, 04:26 PM
Cross-Country
Question, would you consider the Toyota Corolla sales in the world a fad? Would you consider the F series trucks a fad? Because the model Y recently became the best selling CAR in the world…not just EV. Hardly a fad. The F series was 4th which is great but 500k units less then a model Y / Corolla/Rav4.
Your probably reading commentary from a few manufactures like Ford/ GM who are expressing their view now vs three years ago when they were selling a pitch to the public and shareholders and now have to save face again because non of their predictions have materialized and they are now making excuses why they are losing billions a year.
but if you look at the data , more %of EV’s sold go up every year. % of charging stations - go up every year. These are trends that will be with us for the next generation.
If you want to talk about the govt Involvement by statistics then that is ok but I will point out I have bought diesel many times this year with govt intervention. How- because in Georgia our governor has suspended the gas tax several times for a few ones at a time and has saved me $.30 roughly per gallon. Thanks govt!!!
Listening to Farley and Barra complain/ make excuses why they aren’t selling EVs is like listening to the CEOs of Sears and Kmart. They will make excuses why other companies are eating their lunch.
Your probably reading commentary from a few manufactures like Ford/ GM who are expressing their view now vs three years ago when they were selling a pitch to the public and shareholders and now have to save face again because non of their predictions have materialized and they are now making excuses why they are losing billions a year.
but if you look at the data , more %of EV’s sold go up every year. % of charging stations - go up every year. These are trends that will be with us for the next generation.
If you want to talk about the govt Involvement by statistics then that is ok but I will point out I have bought diesel many times this year with govt intervention. How- because in Georgia our governor has suspended the gas tax several times for a few ones at a time and has saved me $.30 roughly per gallon. Thanks govt!!!
Listening to Farley and Barra complain/ make excuses why they aren’t selling EVs is like listening to the CEOs of Sears and Kmart. They will make excuses why other companies are eating their lunch.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/indust...ot-even-close/
#184
10-27-2023, 04:35 PM
Aren't you the one telling others on this thread that they’re ignorant to facts? How ironic…
https://www.autoweek.com/news/indust...ot-even-close/
https://www.autoweek.com/news/indust...ot-even-close/
thanks for the article. Great read! So based off the article the Corolla is still number 1- while Ford and Tesla combine there f series and S&Y
still I guess it’s not a fad and will not go away but I definitely agree and thank you for sending the article to correct me.
#185
10-27-2023, 04:37 PM
Fleet Mechanic
Seems like you want to pick and choose who you are want to respond to
#187
10-28-2023, 11:19 AM
Would rather have a Hybrid, best of both worlds. No angst about range, uses far less fuel and cleaner burning, with zero emissions at times. I can't drive cars because of my back, 20 minutes in one and I am in severe pain, can only drive trucks and a Lightning cost more than my F-450, so whats the advantage of it? None. I still need my F-450 because the Lightning can't do any of what I use the F-450 for. Come out with a Diesel Electric Hybrid F-450 and I'm there.
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#188
10-28-2023, 11:33 AM
Laughing Gas
Would rather have a Hybrid, best of both worlds. No angst about range, uses far less fuel and cleaner burning, with zero emissions at times. I can't drive cars because of my back, 20 minutes in one and I am in severe pain, can only drive trucks and a Lightning cost more than my F-450, so whats the advantage of it? None. I still need my F-450 because the Lightning can't do any of what I use the F-450 for. Come out with a Diesel Electric Hybrid F-450 and I'm there.
IMO that kind of set up would have worked for ford way better than the lightning....
#189
10-28-2023, 11:35 AM
Tesla have a Shelf Life, AKA Throwaway. Within 8-12 years the battery is Kaput and a replacement battery cost more than the resale value of the car. With the way Tesla is going with their software and licensing, an 8 YO Telsa gets far fewer updates and enhancements than a new one, and at some point receives none, just like when RHEL 6 goes End of life if there is a security issue, no patches will be released, you are on your own. Basically a Tesla is a computer with 4 wheels. Anyone still running XP? Thats what the Roadster is today.
Compared to an ICE vehicle, as long as its maintained it can go 20-30 or more years. My 2007 RAV4 188K miles, has some rust, but otherwise is a really good driving running vehicle. It's 16 years old, bought it for $2K, dropped about $1500 in parts in suspension, and drive line, had a dealer replace an ale seal since I don't have a high enough lift to do it myself, so for around $4K I have a good driving reliable OLD car. Can't buy a new Tesla battery pack for $1500, might be able to have one refurbished for $5K, but thats like taking a junk yard engine and putting it in the car, it might have low miles on it, but still has worn parts, just like a refurb battery.
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#190
10-28-2023, 11:58 AM
Tesla have a Shelf Life, AKA Throwaway. Within 8-12 years the battery is Kaput and a replacement battery cost more than the resale value of the car. With the way Tesla is going with their software and licensing, an 8 YO Telsa gets far fewer updates and enhancements than a new one, and at some point receives none, just like when RHEL 6 goes End of life if there is a security issue, no patches will be released, you are on your own. Basically a Tesla is a computer with 4 wheels. Anyone still running XP? Thats what the Roadster is today.
Compared to an ICE vehicle, as long as its maintained it can go 20-30 or more years. My 2007 RAV4 188K miles, has some rust, but otherwise is a really good driving running vehicle. It's 16 years old, bought it for $2K, dropped about $1500 in parts in suspension, and drive line, had a dealer replace an ale seal since I don't have a high enough lift to do it myself, so for around $4K I have a good driving reliable OLD car. Can't buy a new Tesla battery pack for $1500, might be able to have one refurbished for $5K, but thats like taking a junk yard engine and putting it in the car, it might have low miles on it, but still has worn parts, just like a refurb battery.
Compared to an ICE vehicle, as long as its maintained it can go 20-30 or more years. My 2007 RAV4 188K miles, has some rust, but otherwise is a really good driving running vehicle. It's 16 years old, bought it for $2K, dropped about $1500 in parts in suspension, and drive line, had a dealer replace an ale seal since I don't have a high enough lift to do it myself, so for around $4K I have a good driving reliable OLD car. Can't buy a new Tesla battery pack for $1500, might be able to have one refurbished for $5K, but thats like taking a junk yard engine and putting it in the car, it might have low miles on it, but still has worn parts, just like a refurb battery.
#191
10-28-2023, 12:44 PM
I can see both sides of this debate. A Tesla doesn't require any oil changes nor 90% of the maintenance a ICE vehicles requires. If a owner was to take an ICE vehicle to a dealership to have all the required stuff done over a 20-30 year year period what do you think it would cost? Plenty of parts on a ICE to break. Engine, trans, etc. Add in the lower "fuel" costs for the Tesla and it might be the winner.
Once these cars are done, you can't recycle them like an ICE because of the massive amount of computer components. With the trucks, the computer modules can be reused sine they are practically the same for a decade or more, but the EV modules are constantly being redesigned for better battery performance and are limited to a couple years, so they would sit on a shelf. Until EV production reaches the equivalent of current ICE production where all models use the same module with different programming, and are used for several generations of compatibility, the current run of EV's will be a nightmare to recycle properly.
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#192
10-28-2023, 03:24 PM
The difference being my 2007 RAV4 will still be driveable in 10-20 more years while the Tesla will be obsolete. How many computers do you have from 2007 still? A Tesla is a massive computer on wheels, once the OS goes EOL, so does the car. Same holds true for all EV's they are computers on wheels that have an EOL. Computers from 2007 can't run the latest gen Windows, they would crawl to a halt because of differences in chipsets, if the software would even install. Try running Windows 10 on a 486.
Once these cars are done, you can't recycle them like an ICE because of the massive amount of computer components. With the trucks, the computer modules can be reused sine they are practically the same for a decade or more, but the EV modules are constantly being redesigned for better battery performance and are limited to a couple years, so they would sit on a shelf. Until EV production reaches the equivalent of current ICE production where all models use the same module with different programming, and are used for several generations of compatibility, the current run of EV's will be a nightmare to recycle properly.
Once these cars are done, you can't recycle them like an ICE because of the massive amount of computer components. With the trucks, the computer modules can be reused sine they are practically the same for a decade or more, but the EV modules are constantly being redesigned for better battery performance and are limited to a couple years, so they would sit on a shelf. Until EV production reaches the equivalent of current ICE production where all models use the same module with different programming, and are used for several generations of compatibility, the current run of EV's will be a nightmare to recycle properly.
#193
10-28-2023, 03:31 PM
Cargo Master
very limited compared to a 2023 MY EV. Prior to 2015 or so, there was a lot less electronic nannies in cars that are now common place in all new production automobiles.
my 2005 corolla has manual locks, manual door handle, manual hand brake, manual seats, no sensors in bumpers and no back up camera because the field of vision is excellent, the engine is bullet proof, the transmission is a standard version. It will still be on the road long after late 2010s and early 2020s EVs are bricked when the owner finds the computer for the infotainment system or the door opening module is out of stock and no delivery date estimate.
my 2005 corolla has manual locks, manual door handle, manual hand brake, manual seats, no sensors in bumpers and no back up camera because the field of vision is excellent, the engine is bullet proof, the transmission is a standard version. It will still be on the road long after late 2010s and early 2020s EVs are bricked when the owner finds the computer for the infotainment system or the door opening module is out of stock and no delivery date estimate.
#194
10-28-2023, 03:40 PM
Fleet Mechanic
Disposable. Batteries only last so long. Then they will cost anywhere from 25% of the vehicle over a third.
With all the problems, I would expect them to have a relatively short life expectancy. 5-year-old car, would you spend $20,000 on a battery pack?
Fleets are already holding back on them. Example:
https://www.businessinsider.com/hert...-tesla-2023-10
20 years from now, they find a brand new EV parked in a garage/barn find, do you think there would be any excitement or be worth anything?
With all the problems, I would expect them to have a relatively short life expectancy. 5-year-old car, would you spend $20,000 on a battery pack?
Fleets are already holding back on them. Example:
https://www.businessinsider.com/hert...-tesla-2023-10
20 years from now, they find a brand new EV parked in a garage/barn find, do you think there would be any excitement or be worth anything?
#195
10-28-2023, 06:12 PM
Fleet Mechanic