Need some help for fuel system
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Junior User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Nanaimo B.C.
Need some help for fuel system
Hi folks,
I am running an 87 F150 with the 4.9 litre six in it. The beast in on dual fuel (propane and gas). My problem is that when I went to switch over from propane to gas for the winter the truck wouldn't start using the gas. I thought there may be some moisture in the fuel tank so I put in some gas additive and put in new gas. Still no luck. Strangely enough it runs just great on propane but like I said won't start with gas. One thing I did notice is that when I switched over the fuel gauge didn't show any fuel in the tank but when I switced back again to propane it worked fine. I have checked all the fuses and reset the system with no luck. So I don't know if this is an electrical or mechanical problem. If anyone has any advice or ideas it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
F.O.G.
I am running an 87 F150 with the 4.9 litre six in it. The beast in on dual fuel (propane and gas). My problem is that when I went to switch over from propane to gas for the winter the truck wouldn't start using the gas. I thought there may be some moisture in the fuel tank so I put in some gas additive and put in new gas. Still no luck. Strangely enough it runs just great on propane but like I said won't start with gas. One thing I did notice is that when I switched over the fuel gauge didn't show any fuel in the tank but when I switced back again to propane it worked fine. I have checked all the fuses and reset the system with no luck. So I don't know if this is an electrical or mechanical problem. If anyone has any advice or ideas it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
F.O.G.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Colorado
Hmmm, well all I can think of is maybe a fuel pump problem due to the inactive months...??? Are you getting pressure at the fuel rail? As you should have FI, I can't advise you on what would be the equivalent of a stuck float. Maybe some of the FI guys will step up...I'm outta my league on this one.
Broncr
Broncr
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From: Nanaimo B.C.
Hi Broncr,
Thanks for the advice and ideas. I'll check the fuel rail to see if anything is going through if not I guess I'll check both fuel pumps and the filter. It's strange that it starts for a second then runs rough then dies like you say maybe not enought fuel is getting through. Is the fuel guage related to the pump in the tank? If so that would explain why I'm not getting a reading when I shift over to gas. If you have any other ideas or advice it sure would be appreciated.
Cheers
F.O.G.
Thanks for the advice and ideas. I'll check the fuel rail to see if anything is going through if not I guess I'll check both fuel pumps and the filter. It's strange that it starts for a second then runs rough then dies like you say maybe not enought fuel is getting through. Is the fuel guage related to the pump in the tank? If so that would explain why I'm not getting a reading when I shift over to gas. If you have any other ideas or advice it sure would be appreciated.
Cheers
F.O.G.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Langhorne, PA
Dear FreakingOldGuy, I have no clue, and I am stumped. I'm interested why are you using propane anyway, how does that work and what are the pros and cons of having both fuels? Is there a tank of LPG sitting in the bed, or is it in the usual gas tank? I have been told by engine builders that the engine is basically the same but must have hardened valves or both hardened valves and valve seats to run on LPG. Do you have a state emissions test every year, and do you have to pass the test twice, once for gas , once for propane? Good luck, I hope she starts on the gas.
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From: Nanaimo B.C.
Hi there 924X2150,
WRT your questions about propane. Let's just say that it is considerably cheaper than gas here in Canada and that's why quite a few of our trucks are dual fuel. The install was done professionally and everything in the engine is hardened since propane runs considerably hotter than gas. But another benefit is that it runs cleaner than gas. I can attest to this because when I changed my oil after about 5000 Km's it was almost as clean as when I put it in. The tanks are mounted where the spare tire is and a line runs up the frame rail to the propane proportioner and then to the fuel rail. As for emmsion testing here , we don't have it but if we were like Vancouver I could still pass the test running on propane because of the clean burn charecteristics of it, I'm not so sure about the gas as my cats are getting pretty old. The only reason I run gas in the winter is because it gets slightly better horse power than propane and it keeps the fuel from going bad in the damp climate. Hope this answers your questions and now if we could just get mine answered.
Cheers
F.O.G.
WRT your questions about propane. Let's just say that it is considerably cheaper than gas here in Canada and that's why quite a few of our trucks are dual fuel. The install was done professionally and everything in the engine is hardened since propane runs considerably hotter than gas. But another benefit is that it runs cleaner than gas. I can attest to this because when I changed my oil after about 5000 Km's it was almost as clean as when I put it in. The tanks are mounted where the spare tire is and a line runs up the frame rail to the propane proportioner and then to the fuel rail. As for emmsion testing here , we don't have it but if we were like Vancouver I could still pass the test running on propane because of the clean burn charecteristics of it, I'm not so sure about the gas as my cats are getting pretty old. The only reason I run gas in the winter is because it gets slightly better horse power than propane and it keeps the fuel from going bad in the damp climate. Hope this answers your questions and now if we could just get mine answered.
Cheers
F.O.G.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Colorado
Your fuel gauge problem COULD be associated with the source of your "gasoline" running problem. If the gauge is acting up, you may have some corrosion/rust going on it the tank during the inactive months. Perhaps you have a clogged pickup or line? I'd start at the fuel rail and check for gas delivery, then go backwards to the tank if you find insufficient flow. A partially clogged line would explain the "start up, then die" symptom.
I'm just guessing, but since NO-ONE else is trying....(hint,hint)
Broncr
I'm just guessing, but since NO-ONE else is trying....(hint,hint)
Broncr
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Junior User
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From: Nanaimo B.C.
Thanks for the tip,
I'll give it a try, but before I do since my system is fuel injected how to I test the gas flow to the fuel rail, the problem being is that you're supposed to depressurize the system before working on it so I can't see how to disconnect the fuel lines with the system pressurized. I think I should have stuck with a carborated 4.9 Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
F.O.G.
I'll give it a try, but before I do since my system is fuel injected how to I test the gas flow to the fuel rail, the problem being is that you're supposed to depressurize the system before working on it so I can't see how to disconnect the fuel lines with the system pressurized. I think I should have stuck with a carborated 4.9 Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
F.O.G.
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This should probably go without saying, but is there sufficient gas in the tank? The pump could suck up the fuel, run out, but still send whats left in the line to start, but then stall.
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Just a note here, when the truck is being used on propane do you keep the gasoline tank full or empty? I was always instructed that if you need to park a vehicle for extended periods (and you are in a damp, cold, rust making environment) fill the fuel tank to as full as you can to keep condesation from occuring, thus negating rust in the fuel system and possible (more likely probable) fuel system troubles. Does your tank have a drain? Can you switch from gas to propane with the truck running? If so will it stay running? Try detaching your fuel line to the tank and blowing compressed air through them. Pull the sender and see if the filter bag is clogged or even there, if not try the switching valve. I don't knoe that much about dual fuel vehicles, but knoew from experince that fuel system problems are almost as hard to diagnose as electrical. Hope it helps.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,420
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From: Langhorne, PA
If you want to depressurize the fuel line, try to find the fuel shutoff switch, it may be behind the side kick panel on the pass. side interior cab( to the right of a passengers right foot). Anyway, start the truck and hit the switch off, let the engine die as it becomes starved of fuel( not good for Catalytic converters) Crank it a few more times to make sure any residual is burned. Hopefully this will depressurize the rail. Check the the other forums also, it is obvious you do not have an engine problem. This may not be the greatest place to find help.
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Junior User
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From: Nanaimo B.C.
Hi rdhjr169,
Unfortunately I left the tank pretty well empty this summer and with the humidity here I wouldn't be suprised if you're right and it did rust up and plug the lines. And yes redneck 150 I put fuel in two days ago to start running it on gas vice propane. I can switch over when running from propane to gas but not vice versa but it still won't stay running. I also checked the fuel pump this morning and made sure all the connections were made and everything looked allright. So I'll crawl under again and get someone to try starting it to see if the pump is running and if it is I'll change the filter first to see if thats a problem. I checked the manual and I guess I need a special tool to release the pressure in the line before I start screwing around with it. Anyway thanks for the info and I'll let you guys know how I make out.
F.O.G.
Unfortunately I left the tank pretty well empty this summer and with the humidity here I wouldn't be suprised if you're right and it did rust up and plug the lines. And yes redneck 150 I put fuel in two days ago to start running it on gas vice propane. I can switch over when running from propane to gas but not vice versa but it still won't stay running. I also checked the fuel pump this morning and made sure all the connections were made and everything looked allright. So I'll crawl under again and get someone to try starting it to see if the pump is running and if it is I'll change the filter first to see if thats a problem. I checked the manual and I guess I need a special tool to release the pressure in the line before I start screwing around with it. Anyway thanks for the info and I'll let you guys know how I make out.
F.O.G.