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For the continued washboard you're going to need shocks that can handle the heat better. Look for aluminum bodies and reservoirs at a minimum. Fox 2.0 with reservoirs for example. A 2.5 dia body will dissipate heat even better and more easily supply additional damping if setup correctly. First thing most people are going to think about is compression damping, but you're going to need more rebound damping to control those higher spring rates too (both from the heavy truck springs and the additional air bags). I would call whatever shop you are ordering from, explain your situation and full setup, and see if they can tailor the valving for you.
Well I posted the solution. Someone as "educated" as you claim to be should be able to see this. That set-up is "pushing the limits" ON ROAD. You are trying to do it off road and the difference has already been revealed to you. I think in an open public forum like this my comments will be helpful to others trying to do this "overlanding" thing, even if you do not find it helpful. I think your expectations of the vehicle you purchased are wildly optimistic but yes, there are things you can do to try and mitigate the problems you are experiencing. Springs, shocks tires, you are only $8-10k away from making it a little better. Good Luck
There is probably nothing inherently wrong with the springs as they are being loaded exactly as intended but he definitely needs to scale it as there is several front spring options that he may want to entertain.
Really not needing to change to any special springs unless lifted or running offroad unloaded. 2 different circumstances.
There is probably nothing inherently wrong with the springs as they are being loaded exactly as intended but he definitely needs to scale it as there is several front spring options that he may want to entertain.
Really not needing to change to any special springs unless lifted or running offroad unloaded. 2 different circumstances.
Well except that Ford saves money by using fewer leaves in the springs. You could have a more premium set built that would still carry the load but ride better. I also think a progressive set in front might help the ride when correctly paired with shocks as most of the excessive load is on the rear. If you are going to push this hard I think all of the components are suspect. You could get away with lots of different set ups but if you are trying to solve the problems that are inherent with trying to do this, I would look at everything. Eventually the $60k+ camper suffers structurally from the abuse as well as the truck. There is a sizable investment here, just depends on how disposable it is to the OP.
I don't necessarily agree with your comments, but I do think you would agree with me that the factory shocks are junk to begin with?
OP, no 1st hand knowledge of your setup and you're driving, but I would definitely look at larger suspension products, my daily driver is a 550 that weighs in around 11k ( quadruple at when towing). I could not imagine driving at those speeds at that weight with regular shocks.
I drive plenty of regular f-150s, I own two F-150 raptors. The suspension on the raptors incredible, primarily due fox shocks, if I was trying to reproduce what you are doing, the first thing I would do is shocks.
Completely agree on the shocks. My truck isn't on stock shocks anymore and having owned a Raptor I would say the more you are willing to spend the better results you are likely to have. This is a tremendous amount of weight he is trying to control, sprung and unsprung.
Well except that Ford saves money by using fewer leaves in the springs. You could have a more premium set built that would still carry the load but ride better. I also think a progressive set in front might help the ride when correctly paired with shocks as most of the excessive load is on the rear. If you are going to push this hard I think all of the components are suspect. You could get away with lots of different set ups but if you are trying to solve the problems that are inherent with trying to do this, I would look at everything. Eventually the $60k+ camper suffers structurally from the abuse as well as the truck. There is a sizable investment here, just depends on how disposable it is to the OP.
Once loaded though they will work perfectly as intended. He would be past any gain in progressive springs in his weight.
And yes I have ran deavers on a Ram 2500 cummins so I am familiar with these products.
He can get by with shocks and tires. Address springs later if needed.
Need the scale numbers before deciding on front spring changes, often the front axle loses weight when these large campers are loaded into the back. The over hang really pulls the COG towards the back. Definitely want upgraded shocks...2.5s would be fun, but the cost is gonna sting. Anything with reservoirs would be an improvement. I'll second the idea of a front hitch and ebikes out front. Torklift makes a front hitch rated for 1000 lbs tongue weight.
It looks like many comments recommend Fox or Icon 2.5's, so I'll probably go that route in the front. These appear to come with and without oversprings. Since most of my weight is on the back wheels, I'm not sure oversprings are necessary on the front, but I'll ask for opinions on that. I've read that both Icon and Fox make good products, and that Fox provides a better street ride, while Icon provides a better off-road ride. I'm on pavement 95% of the time (freeway, getting to and from backroads), but when I'm off pavement, I may be off for miles - so I'd probably be happy with either of them. If anyone has any strong opinions on this, please share.
For the rear, I'm still thinking of replacing my Airlift 5000 Ultimates with either the Airlift 7500 or the Firestone 7500. My current system has 2 independent air lines run to in front of my wheel wells (I cannot run the lines to my bumper because the camper completely covers the bumper). From what I can tell, the Firestone bags are rated up to 150 psi, and the Airlift to 100 psi, so if I went with onboard air with dual controls, I'd choose Airlift's system that is wireless, or the Firestone system that requires running air lines. Thanks for the input that I don't have to have the air lines in the cab with me - but honestly, I'd like to have the ability to control from the cab. For example, if I'm leaving a gas station and there is a dip in the road leaving the station (as is often the case in Utah where they use dips to channel water away from the street), I'd like the ability to air up a little to raise the rear and prevent dragging the bike rack, and then air down again after getting on the road - without needing to exit the truck to make the air changes. Do the Airlift and Firestone bags both provide the same amount of lift? Raising the bags by an inch would probably raise the bike rack by 2 inches, which is often enough to help.
Should I look at Fox or Icon shocks for the rear as well, and if so, would oversprings be more appropriate for that? Sorry if these are novice questions - I've never messed with suspension before, other than when I put on the Airlift bags on.
Thanks also for the suggestion to move the bikes to the front of the truck. I should have mentioned, however, that I already tried that. It helped the weight distribution, but messed up my adaptive cruise control - which is a godsend on the freeway, so I went back to putting the bikes on the back. I think the adaptive cruise uses the front camera, and the bikes confuse it - if there was a way around that, I'd really like to hear about it! I know I could just use the normal cruise control, but I'm hoping not to go down that road if I can find alternatives.
Need the scale numbers before deciding on front spring changes, often the front axle loses weight when these large campers are loaded into the back. The over hang really pulls the COG towards the back. Definitely want upgraded shocks...2.5s would be fun, but the cost is gonna sting. Anything with reservoirs would be an improvement. I'll second the idea of a front hitch and ebikes out front. Torklift makes a front hitch rated for 1000 lbs tongue weight.
I'm running 80 PSI in the rear bags right now. I'm not sure it's enough, which is why I'm thinking bigger bags. I like that the Firestone 7500 goes up to 150 PSI, but don't like that their onboard air system requires mounting a gauge and valves in the cab - I'm not that tall, so have the seat moved forward (also lets me store more crap on the floor in the back seat), and there isn't much room to mount anything without me hitting my knees on it.
You're absolutely right about the camper moving the COG toward the rear. The last time I weighed in I was 4,700 on the front axel and 9,700 on the rear. This was without the supertruss, bike rack and bikes, and some gear I've added since then, so I'm going to be at least 250 lbs more in the back, and probably a bit less on the front. I'm not sure I need more spring in the front - but definitely need more shocks, and the 2.5's seem to be what most people recommend. Does this apply to the rear as well?
I should have mentioned - I already added a front receiver and tried the bikes on the front. Helped the weight distribution, but killed using the adaptive cruise control (I don't know if the bikes mess with the camera or the radar sensor, but regardless, the truck behaves erratically because it thinks something is ahead of me). I could just use the normal cruise control, and maybe that is what I should do, but the adaptive feature is pretty important to me, and I'm trying to find other solutions before going back to bikes on the front...
Ya the bikes would definitely block the radar sensors for adaptive cruise...glad I ordered a XLT and won't have to worry about that.
certainly on the high end of what your current bags will do, an upgrade there won't hurt. Having in cab control would be handy for all the reasons you described. Not sure between fox and icons, my gut is fox but it would be curious to see if either cab sell you something with custom valving with the camper in mind.
Seems like your on the right track, hope things work out.
There is probably nothing inherently wrong with the springs as they are being loaded exactly as intended but he definitely needs to scale it as there is several front spring options that he may want to entertain.
Really not needing to change to any special springs unless lifted or running offroad unloaded. 2 different circumstances.
No, I'm not lifted, and while I have run offroad unloaded a few times, that is a lot more rare (e.g., when I drop the camper and then go exploring - for example, we did Death Valley washboard to Eureka Dunes, camped there, then out of the valley, dropped the camper in a campground, and drove back down Titus Canyon road unloaded). But because this camper is such a bear to load on the truck, I only take it off when I have a specific reason to do so, or plan to stay in one campground for a few days, and want to have wheels to go on day trips from camp.
Honestly, I don't think front springs are an issue - with all the weight in the rear, I'm probably lowering the weight on the front (the CG of the camper and bike rack combination is probably behind the rear wheel). I know I need different shocks, but front springs are probably fine. Looking for thoughts on rear shocks too - am I looking for the same idea there?
The last I scaled it, I was 4,700 in the front, and 9,700 in the back - but when I weighed in, I was without the supertruss, bike rack and bikes (so add 250 lbs to the rear). I don't think my Airlift 5000 bags are big enough for what I'm doing - which sucks, because they weren't cheap, but if I need to upgrade them I will. Still working on those ideas too. The last trip (Death Valley, Canyonlands, and other places between home (in WA) and the southwest, made me think I need to beef things up.
but definitely need more shocks, and the 2.5's seem to be what most people recommend. Does this apply to the rear as well?
Yes, you can get 2.5's for front and rear. Depending on how much you want to spend you could even get them custom tuned for your application. Maybe give Accutune a call or email.
I also have a 2019 F350 CCLB but it's a single rear wheel set-up and I carry my 990 around just fine, on and off road. I also have an hitch extension that carries (2) E-bikes ( remove battery of course ) so that adds another 100lbs at the very back.
Truck has mods that set me back a pretty penny but are worth it for my usage.
Truck came with some Fox 2.0's all around and they work great unloaded and loaded
Replaced the existing rear springs and got a custom made progressive set that are made to carry the actual weight of the camper loaded up. When camper is on my overload springs don't even make contact. Had a spring shop do the work and it cost me about 2k. Had the camper loaded up on the truck when they made the set up and installed.
I purchased and installed the same airlift 5k bags you reference but I also got the onboard compressor and mounted it up under the truck and it has a remote digital keypad for inflated and deflating and I can visually see how much air is in each side.. Bags are separately connected to compressor so they can operate independently, Even mounted a fill valve at the rear bumper sides in case the compressor rolls a six and I can inflate with a tank or air hose if needed. I run them at 5psi when not loaded and then put 50psi in to stiffen and sway I get. Inflating the bags don't raise the back end at all they just provide additional resistance.
Purchased and installed big rig sway bars front and rear as they really help.
Removed the factory steering stabilizer and installed a Fox 2.0 dual set-up in front and it made a noticeable difference. Don't even spill my drink when off-road.
But the very first thing I did was install some Toyo M/T tires and Method NV305HD's rims.
Have had this set-up for 2 years and have been to the local mountains and desert's as well as the upper half of Baja without any issues.
Last year we took a month long trip up through Moab UT and up into Idaho and Wyoming and was off-road alot of the time looking for places to boondock.
This year we went back to NC for 6 weeks and were off the beaten path going and coming home ( san diego) nothing broke or failed.
Invest in the springs and let them do their job would be my advice for a starting point and then add as you see fit.
I know you are butthurt over my comments but shocks still do not address the tires. On the stock tire set up you have them to 80 psi max to carry that load. As long as that is necessary, shocks are only going to be a marginal improvement. That is why i think you have the wrong vehicle for blasting down rough roads that heavy. Now you could convert to a wheel/tire set up like the UNIMOG I pictured, Earthroamer does just that on their adventure vehicles. 20" wheels and 365/80-20 tires are not only vastly more durable but would allow you to run lower pressures which would actually be a big improvement. They of course start with an F450 but I suspect it can be done on the 350 as well.
