Hi everyone,

Last Friday while in real-time heat of battle with my worthy adversary fisher_of_man I made the statement that I could prove that the God of the bible is an impossibility. Of course I can't prove it, and I regret the misstatement.

However, many of our Christian brethren have now donned their lab coats, fired up their bunson burners and are awaiting the first report from me with their micrometers and microscopes in the ready to apply a most rigorous examination of the evidence. Oh, the sweet irony.

However, I invite the scrutiny. We are going to pursue the truth, wherever it leads us in this thread. Fisher has agreed to have an open mind and I have agreed in turn also.

I've decided to post several bite-sized pieces that will try to remain focused. I will preface each with a "proof" statement only to give you the reader the context necessary. The word itself connotes nothing. They will be philosophical rather than scientific in nature. Nothing glazes my eyes more than mathematical notation, except for long, rambling posts.

Since we are all gainfully employed I can't make any promises when the proofs will appear, but ask for your patience and honest input.

Warm regards,

billsco

 

I have a proposition that may be quite illustrative:

Before this starts, how about; define "God".

Conceptually; "The Supreme Being"

But . . couldn't that very well be "simply" a tremendously advanced alien culture, a member of whom decided on a little experiment on an uninhabited world?

. . conceptually . .

 

This otta be good...

 

You got a point there....ALIENS

 

what the heck is flying at your car in your avatar atc?

 

Hi ctfuzzy,

I did already...God of the bible...Jehovah or Yahweh, but thanks for the opportunity to underline the point .

 

The God of the Bible is an Impossibility

Proof 1: The Creation Story

Although some people only need to learn that the Genesis story is only a much newer version of a Hindu creation story about Hadama and Heva to dismiss it entirely, others immediately see the work of some sly, slick manipulator planting that Hindu story to fool unsuspecting people. Satan, of course, old Beezlebub himself, is the most intelligent creature ever to be created by God, outside of some fundamentalists.

God made Adam and Eve and put them in the garden, instructed them not to eat the fruit of the tree of KNOWLEDGE, made Satan and forgot to tell the two about this extreme danger and then promptly rested. While he was sleeping, the wily devil, disguised as a snake, tempted Eve, who unwittingly infected Adam with that horrible disease known as knowledge. God, now roused from his REM sleep, goes down to find out what happened (?), only to find out he was caught flatfooted, and prompty hands out punishment. It was Eve's fault, and she pays handily.

We need a new god. One that takes his administrative duties more seriously. One that doesn't take the weekends off. One who doesn't make talking snakes that infect us all with depravity, or who despises human knowledge. One who doesn't blame women. Most importantly, one who will write a book that instills morality in us. It would be easy to say this is a most immoral story, but it only serves as a beginning of the immorality to follow.

 

Woops. Sorry.

. . I agree, this should be good.

 

That couldn't be more incorrect billsco. God warned them not to eat of the tree of "Good and Evil" not the tree of 'Knowledge' first of all. Secondly, you are acting as if God knew nothing of the incident. God is all-knowing my friend. He knew what was happening the entire time... It was test to Adam and Eve for their loyalty to God. He knew that they were only human and subject to temptation, but he wanted to test them to see just how loyal they were to their master and creator. After they failed the test, they deserved punishment.

I'm sure glad we don't have a God that made us into these perfect little robots that had no free choice. You've got it all wrong billsco. We were created in God's image because he loved us and wanted us to have a place to dwell. Why did he do it? I don't have all the answers unfortunately, but why not? If you're God, you can pretty much do whatever you durn well please I'd say. Let me ask you this about your 'idea' of needing a new God.

When you take Chemistry and realize that Gold can be abbreviated in a couple of letters and numbers that are now on the Periodic Table (sp?), the teacher doesn't just assume that you've actually put in the effort to study and remember exactly what he/she told you. The teacher tests you to make sure you are not just nodding your head to make him/her happy. In the same way God tests up every single day. I'm sorry but temptation is just a thing of this world that everyone has to deal with day in and day out. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to think of you.

If you're on a diet, you have to push yourself to keep with it and loose weight. It doesn't just all of sudden fall off your body. In the same way, you can't just ask God into your heart and forget about it, you have to live for his sake...whatever that may mean to you.

So you think we need a new God? Why don't you take his place and see how well you do... Do you know what happens to a child if you over shelter it and over protect while he/she gets older. The one time they see a problem when you aren't their, they freak out. I think God knew exactly what he was doing. You learn from your mistakes billsco...and you learn to trust God when there seems to be a snake at your door trying to decieve you with something that looks so great, but in the end, it kills you. If they would have just trusted God and did what he said all along. . .well where do you think we'd be right now? I hope I didn't offend you because that was not my purpose. I'm just trying to let you know the truth.

true4.2

 

All references to Genesis.
“God made Adam and Eve and put them in the garden, instructed them not to eat the fruit of the tree of KNOWLEDGE, made Satan and forgot to tell the two about this extreme danger and then promptly rested.” Well, not really the bible says “Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” 3:3 I would say that is telling them of extreme danger. As far as making Satan, that goes to the question of good and evil. Can there be good without evil? Do we want to tackle that question at this time? It is beyond my knowledge at this time.

“God, now roused from his REM sleep, goes down to find out what happened (?), only to find out he was caught flatfooted” Where do you get the impression that he didn’t know the answers to all his questions? Don’t tell me you have never asked or been asked a question that you knew the answer to? I do it all the time. It is a great tool in teaching and learning.

“It was Eve's fault, and she pays handily.” Everyone was punished. Adam 3:17-19, Eve 3:16 and the snake 3:14-15. Based on the Scripture I would say the snake got the worst of it and Adam and Eve worked out about even.

“We need a new god. One that takes his administrative duties more seriously. One that doesn't take the weekends off.” Where would the proof of this statement be? I would say He is very serious about his duties and doesn’t “take the weekends off”

“Most importantly, one who will write a book that instills morality in us” I have not read the whole Bible, but I feel it instills morality to a great degree. It is the people that don’t read the Bible or choose to ignore it that don’t see this. There are countless stories of good (morality) being rewarded in the Bible.

 

posted by true4.2:

"God warned them not to eat of the tree of "Good and Evil" not the tree of 'Knowledge' first of all."

Hi true4.2:

Looks like we have a scriptural problem. I was using my wife's Catholic Douay version. It says "the tree of knowledge of good and evil". I guess if it were my first days on earth and I didn't know the difference between a god and a snake, I may be tempted to pick up an apple that fell on the ground that said "learn something valuable today, learn the difference between good and evil". I might even pick a bushel of them.

"He knew what was happening the entire time... It was test to Adam and Eve for their loyalty to God."

But he didn't know the outcome?

"So you think we need a new God? Why don't you take his place and see how well you do... Do you know what happens to a child if you over shelter it and over protect while he/she gets older."

I hope he/she gets older. Do you know what a 5 year old child looks like dying of cancer, when we all know there is a cure and God won't give it to us?

Regards.

 

I belive in God. I Belive Jesus Christ died on the cross to save my sins. Thats all Folks!

 

posted by Harrier:

“It was Eve's fault, and she pays handily.” Everyone was punished. Adam 3:17-19, Eve 3:16 and the snake 3:14-15. Based on the Scripture I would say the snake got the worst of it and Adam and Eve worked out about even. "

Hi Harrier,

The snake got a skate. He was ordered to eat dust but the order was never enforced.

Adam received a job, tilling the soil and clearing pesky weeds.

Eve was given physical punishment, and ordered to be a slave to her husband. This WAS enforced.

There's no mistaking who got the worst of it.

 

Billco,

Are you going to talk about all the incest that must of went on back then? I mean He only made two people and there must be billions of them around here now. That just never made any sense to me...know what I mean...?

Bill in Miami.

Oh, and are we brothers...or cousins?

 

It is nice to see a subject like this going on without flaming.

Billsco, it seems to me that you don't necesarilly not believe in God but that you are upset with him and find his actions to be stupid (maybe I am wrong). I have felt this way many times. However, it is impossible to understand what he does. To me, it is only LOGICAL (as ironic as it may sound) to think that there is some sort of higher being that created existence of anything and everything. It can not have happened by scientic explanation because in each scientfic explanation there are begining elements (gases, rocks, whatever it is that they say). So, what created those things? So, by all logical thinking (the same logical thinking that "proves" the non-existence of God), there is something out there that created everything. So, I come to the conclusion that God created everything for some reason that NOONE knows, and to try to understand everything that he does when I don't even know why he created me doesn't make much sense. I think that this is the original intent of logical thinking. Not to come up with alternate ideas to creation, but to bring all thinking back to the basic conclusion that all these scientific theories CAN NOT be proven correct.

Logic: you can't live with it, you can't live without it. In order to prove EITHER side of this debate, you must disprove logic. Which is the basis of both arguements. Go figure.

I know that my arguement sounds really crappy right now, but It is past my bedtime. I will expand tomorrow.