I don't hate ethanol. I am just pointing out that you are not saving 10% of oil by mixing 10% ethanol into gas. According to your own post it would be more like mixing 10% ethanol saves 3% of our oil. I don't think it is even that.

The main point is we have enough oil reserves within our own country to last for hundreds of years. There is no reason to buy it elsewhere. You would think a viable alternative would be found in that time frame. Using corn for fuel is nothing more than a government payout to big AG.

Where would the ethanol industry be if the government had never mandated it?

 

Sorry I don’t believe I can the make the argument more clear.

If the government didn’t mandate ethanol or create subsidies, then it would wither on the vine. But you still don’t understand. It’s the governments way of using tax dollars to to decrease the dependence on foreign oil.

We consume 19.5 millions barrels per day (mb p/d). We produce about 11 mb p/d. That’s 8.5 mb p/d that we have to import. That 3% gain from ethanol, means that 235 million barrels of oil that we don’t have to import from foreign dictators. But as I have said a 33% increase in energy is not some amazing increase but it helps.

The future IMO for ethanol is Agenol, made from algae.

Algae biofuel frontrunner Algenol, for example, converts plentiful saltwater into biofuel with yields nearly 17 times higher than those of corn, while producing 1.4 gallons of fresh water per every gallon of fuel produced.

When we add up increased oil production, corn ethanol, Algenol, hybrids, EVs, etc., we can finally achieve oil independence. And only then can we stop having oil hikes because of foreign wars and diplomacy. We need to use everything at our disposal to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

Due to the current political and cultural climate, to assume that oil producers will just produce more because we need it, despite the up front cost, is beyond hope. They need to know they will recoup their costs and that is not a given at the moment.

 

I believe the original intent of ethanol in gasoline was to replace MTBE as an oxygenate additive that at the time was causing groundwater pollution concerns. I don't remember what the original percentage was.

 

I think you are right. It was used as an oxygenator to replace MTBE. That is a good point.

 

I don't dispute your barrels per day stats, but when were those taken? Two years ago was a different story than the last 12 months or so.

Good point on the algenol. I hope that is successful in the future.

I still think we have enough oil reserves in our country to last for a long time if we would just develop them. Long enough for a suitable alternative to come along.

 

They we’re end of year numbers. It is 11.65 mb p/d now. Our highest was 12.95 mb p/d under the previous admin. But still not 19+ mb p/d that is needed. It has risen this year due to demand but lowered since the administration change.

The oil companies don’t want to spend billions to find out in a year, once the crisis is over, that the government calls for a 20% reduction in fossil fuels and/or emissions. It’s not smart business. If we want to produce more than we use, it would take 8 years or more of an administration that made them feel safe and likely laws put in place that couldn’t be rescinded easily. But that is unlikely.

Or 30% of the country can buy EVs. Either/Or. I am considering one, but my truck stays. The EV will unlikely save me bundles of cash but it would decrease our dependence on foreign oil.

Algenol should be a success but the oil companies keep trying to convince people that all ethanol is bad and to fight back. Only use oil.

I don’t believe we are going to run out of oil in the near future. But I also don’t believe a “solution” will be found until the oil companies have gotten their share. That’s how business works and they have us hooked.

 

I think we all can agree if we (the USofA) produced more of our own oil, we wouldn't be in this mess that the administration put us in. Then we wouldn't have to debate on how much ethanol we produce/use/burn/etc. I myself didn't like it before gas prices went through the roof. My reason: I buy locally grown beef and bison. Ethanol has pushed corn prices so high, my local producers cannot afford to raise butcher beef/bison. That affects "ME". Maybe not everyone else. Now days I burn ethanol in 1 of our vehicles that can take E85. I pay 25% less at the pump and it affects our vehicle by 15% which is a savings. So, I'll keep running it until further notice. My 7.3 F-350, I only run straight gasoline. I just don't camp as much as I use to.....

 

I can agree that if we pumped more oil ourselves that global markets would affect us less. Absolutely.

The lack of supply due to increased demand was easily seen by those watching the market. Due to COVID, demand was down and supply was plentiful, so oil companies decreased supply to meet demand.

The previous administration had been a great environment for oil companies to produce more and they over produced because of a once in a lifetime shutdown affected demand. Bad timing.

They attempted to correct by limiting supply and saw a worse environment, by the current administration. They have increased supply some but refuse to put in the billions needed to open new sources to meet current demand. Demand will eventually decrease and bring prices down or this will become the new reality.

Oil companies will not open enough new sources to continue to increase supply to meet American needs unless an administration can promise to not place more restrictions on them once gas supply and demand comes into line. Unlikely as they could have made those promises be haven’t. Instead we use dictators to supply our oil.

Corn ethanol is not bad but also not efficient. We need to move on to more efficient means of creating ethanol but we move slowly as a country. Until the corn ethanol still reduces our need for foreign oil by using a homegrown product. It is far from perfect.

Then people have to consider Global Warming. If we believe that people can affect it in a substantial way, then we should not produce more oil but find other sources of fuel. If we believe our actions are extremely minimal then we need another person in the WH that believes it’s a myth. There aren’t many.

If enough people switch to EV vehicles maybe demand will decrease enough to get fuel back to an acceptable price. I am considering one to alongside my diesel truck but not to replace it. But then electricity will increase in price as demand increases. In the end we always will pay, but we can make electricity in here in America.

 

The inconvenient problem with EV's is that they run primarily on fossil fuels. There is always a reduction in efficiency when converting one form of energy to another.

The other problem is that if just 10% of gas cars were replaced with EV's our power grid would probably collapse.

I don't know what the real solution is but we have enough oil to last until it gets figured out. A real leap in battery technology will happen at some point but even then a gradual transfer to EV's will have to happen to prevent serious problems in the grid.

 

Yes fossil fuels are used to create electricity but I believe that will change rapidly in the future. Solar has only been efficient for 3 years and I see it becoming the #1 source of electricity quickly.

I hope your wrong about the grid because gas cars will quickly be replaced by EVs in the next couple of years. The good part about the grid is how individuals will be used to strengthen the grid. I will be adding solar panels soon and they will be attached to the grid.