I know this has probably been asked a million times, but I can’t seem to find anything past 2012, and I’m sure things have changed since then. So if there is a good thread, please feel free to point me in the right direction.

I’m looking for information and some solid guidance on where to start, reputable brands for injectors and tuning.

let’s start with the truck and mods.

The truck is pretty unmolested. I bought it off the second owner a year ago. He said no tunes ever on this truck. No reason to question his word, everything he said that was done to it, receipts were in the glove box.

2001 F-250 7.3. CCSB (confirmed PMR truck) 280,000 miles

-AIH delete
-oil crossover
-4” flo pro exhaust (no cat)
- 6637 air filter

thats really about it. Bellowed up pipes and EBPV delete pedestal coming soon. The rest that has been done is just general maintenance.

the reason I’m replacing injectors in the first place, is because I’ve developed a miss, and it’s starting to get worse. I’ve had the truck scanned and it throws a code for #3 injector and #8 injector. I’m told #8 is often hits because of the dead head. I did the UVCH harness on both sides, And combed through every inch of the wiring harness.

My goals for the truck: Being a PMR truck, I know I’m limited to around 400 horse. I use this truck for a daily driver/work/tow vehicle. I regularly tow a 16ft high side dump trailer to and from the local landfill. I’m at about 13,500Lbs total rig with empty trailer.

My questions are:

should I go hybrid injectors or a more OEM style injector?

will I need will I NEED to immediately upgrade the turbo to a 38R or equivalent to support a larger injector?

if I go to hybrid, is a fuel crossover and/or fuel bowl delete a must?

will the stock fuel pump keep up with bigger injectors, or do I need to switch to something like an air dog system?

who is the best outfit for tunes?

basically, where do I start this rabbit hole?

 

Currently, the best sources for injectors, are @Bitterroot Diesel and rosewood, sorry, i dont know his tag. I just went with bitterroot, 160/30, because my truck was stock when i started, and i talked with clay at riffraff, called kc turbo, and talked with matt at bitterroot.... i did not want to be forced into a new hpop, fuel pump, or a complete new turbo. Matt told me the 160/30s would greatly improve my performance, and with a hydra, would give me more flexibility, with considerable hp gains. I fell down the rabbit hole, and hope to have those sticks in the truck this week. Smarter heads will be along soon, im sure. But thats my two cents for the time being.

 

I have been going through the same questions you are right now. How big to go with a pmr motor. It surprised me a bit when I talked to bitterroot he had little reservation about running 238/80s on a otherwise healthy pmr engine. I had called him intent on having him build me smaller injectors and he talked me into the 238s. I wasn’t planning on going too much smaller but a little bit.

I have dug around a great many hours reading old
threads about pmr engine setups. One poster I have found repeatedly on the various psd forums is the user pocket. What I have learned from him and others is torque is really the important number for pmrs. What you really don’t want is torque that spikes fast in low rpm settings. It causes too much cylinder pressure and that is what makes pmrs make a b-line to exit the block. Pockets cutoff was 900 ft/lbs of torque. I believe he dyno’d around 460-480 with mid-high 800s torque. A similar set up forged rod motor could easily make 1000 ft/lbs torque… he did all his own tuning though!

I am planning on using jelibuilt for my hydra. He nailed the tuning on my 97. I love the way it runs!

Without going into detail he just told me his pmr tunes are more conservative across the board. Bitterroot seemed confident in AA tuning for a pmr motor to live a happy life.

 

I have also been reading a lot of fuel system related threads lately. Here is my .02c. Another guy that used to post a lot on the forums was csipsd. He did a lot of testing many years ago with various injector sizes on the bone stock fuel system. He stated many times that he didn’t see fuel pressure drop to a unhealthy level until he had 250/100s. Now others may have different results but i do know that there aren’t very many of us that have had a fuel pressure gauge in the cab with 2,3,4….. different sized injectors monitoring fuel pressure on the same pickup. I am building a fuel system for mine because I want to and it’s fun for me. So I would say assess the health of your current system and see what needs addressed. It’s not a necessity at all. Especially if you go with a stage 1.5 - small hybrid.

kc turbos have become the go to for drop-in turbos.

Do you have a budget? With 280,000 on it you may find the deeper you look the more you find. Depending on how much the little details bother you. Either way it would be a good idea to run a compression test before you dump a bunch of money into it.

 

160/30 with good tuning is a nice upgrade.

 

Thanks for the info! As I’m not really looking to replacing all of that either. Not until I have too anyway. I’ll look into bitterroot. I would be interested in your thoughts when you get them done for sure!

 

That makes sense, about the torque spikes. I don’t really plan on bumping it that much. So I’ll take that as good news haha! I’m pretty happy with the performance of my truck in its current stock condition. It has done everything I’ve asked it to do so far. I just wish I could wake it up a bit, and get rid of that miss while doing so. I was told by someone awhile back to go 238s as well. As they can be detuned. I’m wondering if that wouldn’t be a better route, because I do plan on a KC or 38R upgrade in the future. I’d like to have some injectors that can reasonably keep up with future upgrades. Like I said before though, I’m not after crazy high hp or torque gains. Just a nice reliable tow rig.

 

Thanks for sharing that info. The fuel system was one of my bigger concerns, with larger injectors. I have not had a compression test done yet, I do plan on it before injectors.

 

I'm running DIY 205/80 hybrids with stock fuel and HPOP.
With little turbo upgrade and NO intercooler,i don't tow.

@DZL JIM , and csipsd is @Gaugepro today.
Tagged becouse they were mentioned.

I've read that modern tuning can go up to 600hp with PMRs..??

My least favorite tuner is 1023 Diesel.

 

I have to agree. My 1023 tunes that I tried were terrible. I called them about some tunes for another pickup I was working on and the guy I talked acted like I was bothering him by asking some questions. So I took my business elsewhere.

 

agreed but I’ve only ran a ts chip , hydra with there tunes and 1023 stock injectors, I’ve only ran swamps tuning since putting in their injectors

 

For just a reliable tow rig 160/30 and a drop in like a kc stage 1 63/68 .84 is a great do all setup, and easier on the wallet. There is no reason to jump to a 238/80 and detune, all that is doing is hurting towing performance and leaving untapped potential on the table. It also costs a lot more. With the money saved from going with the 160/30 you could buy a fresh performance hpop and update to newer lines and fittings.

I must be an oddball, I like 1023 tunes especially on my zf6 truck. They and Andrew Arthur have been the best options for my trucks

 

I think the 200/30% Hybrids are a great overall injector. They will get you to around 450 hp if you want, and will work great with the 38R turbo. They are a nice daily driver and with good custom tuning can tow great. Address your fuel system and your all set.
You do not NEED to upgrade anything right away, just stay in lower hp tunes and you should be fine. But you won't be able to see what the injectors can do without the turbo and fuel system.

Now, as for the fuel system:
I also did some testing years ago, with different fuel pumps and pressures on a dyno with a set of 238/100% Hybrids. He is correct, the fuel pressure didn't drop much with a stock pump, only a few psi, but it DID dropped 12 hp on the dyno vs an Aeromotive pump. That says something right there, pressure isn't everything, so don't forget about flow.
The best thing that you can do for a Super Duty is to upgrade the fuel system. A CNC Fab 4 line feed kit would do fine with the 200/30% Hybrids, but if you want the best of the best then a full regulated return kit on the engine will let you dial it right in. No need to change the fuel pump or oem filter, either. I really don't see anything "wrong" with those, although you can always upgrade those, too, if you want.

 

This is why I love this forum! I thank everyone for your input. Keep it coming! Bare with me as I’m just beginning this journey. Y’all have given me a lot to think about and research already.

correct me if I’m mistaken, but it seems that it boils down to 2 choices for the outcome I’m looking for.

160/30’s or 238/80 hybrids.

I assume the 160’s are a single shot, not double shot like the stock injectors? Making them more efficient than stock, while upping available fuel…

the 280 hybrids, as I’m understanding, are a bit quieter (don’t matter to me), and run off of less oil pressure, giving the HPOP a new outlook on life, all while having tons more fuel available over stock injectors…

I guess my biggest questions are, what’s the pros and cons look like when comparing 238’s and 160’s? For a tow rig?

Someone mentioned the 238’s wouldn’t be as good for towing, leaving untapped potential on the table, compared to the 160’s. My question regarding that is, why is that so? Could someone elaborate on that, or point me in the direction of that info?

which injector would be a better ‘grow with me’ injector so to speak?

I’m already pulling what little hair I have left out 😆

 

238/80 is a lot of fuel potential. @FordTruckNoob made around 500hp on, I think 205/30's?