Engine Noise Diagnosis
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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The valve did move, but travel was about 3/16” less compared to the other valves.
Also noted the oil had a fine metallic sheen. That dashed any hopes of something relatively simple like a collapsed lifter.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,781
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From: Foothills of NC
I didn’t need to remove the rocker arms. I found about 1/16” of slack in the pushrod for #6 exhaust. All other pushrods had slight tension on them when relaxed.
The valve did move, but travel was about 3/16” less compared to the other valves.
Also noted the oil had a fine metallic sheen. That dashed any hopes of something relatively simple like a collapsed lifter.
The valve did move, but travel was about 3/16” less compared to the other valves.
Also noted the oil had a fine metallic sheen. That dashed any hopes of something relatively simple like a collapsed lifter.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 105
From: Houston
Depends on the individual. Ive had people call what I take as a tapping noise a knocking noise. So many people hear top end valve train noise they think that is knocking. Out of all my years of working in the field Ive only had bottom in rod knock come into the shop twice and it is a distinct heavy hammering.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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Grasping at straws...
I didn’t need to remove the rocker arms. I found about 1/16” of slack in the pushrod for #6 exhaust. All other pushrods had slight tension on them when relaxed.
The valve did move, but travel was about 3/16” less compared to the other valves.
Also noted the oil had a fine metallic sheen. That dashed any hopes of something relatively simple like a collapsed lifter.
The valve did move, but travel was about 3/16” less compared to the other valves.
Also noted the oil had a fine metallic sheen. That dashed any hopes of something relatively simple like a collapsed lifter.
My next step is to pull the suspect lifter and send pictures of the face where it rides on the cam. The guy said if the cam lobe has failed, the bottom of the lifter will be scored. Makes sense to me. He also agreed the metallic sheen in the oil points towards a wiped lobe.
Just throwing a Hail Mary here, but is there a way to differentiate between a wiped lobe and a collapsed lifter, without a major teardown? If the problem was only a bad lifter, that's easy enough to fix without pulling the engine. If the camshaft has failed, the warranty guy said they'd replace the whole engine.
Working on my plan of attack now. The metallic sheen in the oil? How much is normal with a brand new engine? I also realize I could pull the manifold and then get to the lifter in situ, but if the most probable cause is the camshaft, I just want to yank the motor and be done. No point tilting at windmills. Plus, my back is killing me lately and I'd like to limit time hunched under the hood.
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,120
Likes: 390
From: Evansville, Indiana
I sympathize with your pain. I installed my new build that I did mostly myself. I had problems. I had gotten totally screwed by the machine shop. I already had the heads pulled. I had three intake valves that could not hold air. Other than fight with the reassembly in the truck, I just pulled it out.
When the engine was ready I dropped it back in. IIRC, it took about 30 minutes to install the second time. Bell housing bolts, motor mounts and exhaust.
If you must pull and reinstall I can tell you it will be ten times easier the second time.
If the reman rep is willing to warranty your engine you are way better off than most in the same predicament.
Hope your back pain doesn't interfere with your fun.
When the engine was ready I dropped it back in. IIRC, it took about 30 minutes to install the second time. Bell housing bolts, motor mounts and exhaust.
If you must pull and reinstall I can tell you it will be ten times easier the second time.
If the reman rep is willing to warranty your engine you are way better off than most in the same predicament.
Hope your back pain doesn't interfere with your fun.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 57,014
Likes: 2,750
From: Virginia
The way to tell is get a dial indicator and compare the lift of that assembly compared to the others. If the cam lobe is wiped out it will not have as much lift as the others. All the intakes should be the same, all the exhausts should be the same. I see harbor freight has a dial indicator for $17.00.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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Something in the valve train was definitely bad. The only question is exactly what had failed? Wiped cam lobe? Collapsed lifter? Wouldn’t they have very similar symptoms?
I am still going on the premise of a wiped cam lobe. Mostly moot now, but is there any way to differentiate before a teardown?
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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I don’t know. IIRC, a lifter has a light spring inside, to keep it expanded. Oil pressure does the bulk of the work, keeping the lifter expanded by hydraulic action. But the spring is there to assist.
So IF (big if) I understand things correctly, a bad lifter will stay extended if unloaded. But put any force on it, and if no hydraulic pressure is present, it will collapse. Remove the force and it will expand again.
Maybe I just answered my own question. Remove the rocker arm so there’s no force on the lifter. Measure the pushrod travel in this unloaded condition, and compare it to the other valves. Even if the cam lobe is wiped, the lifter will stay extended thanks to the internal spring. You’d get an accurate measurement of cam lift.
If that was good, reinstall the rocker arm. Now the lifter will be loaded, as it tries to open the valve. Measure the cam lift again, at the pushrod side of the rocker arm. If same as before, the lifter is good and is not collapsing. If the travel is significantly less than before, you’d know that lifter is collapsing under load.
I think the secret is to measure cam lift unloaded and then loaded, and compare the two values.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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Much of the frustration was not knowing how to proceed. The manager at the parts store was very helpful, but he cautioned me the warranty process could be be very slow. In some cases, the vehicle was towed to a shop for a professional diagnosis. With that in mind, I couldn't start prepping to remove the engine in case the truck had to go to a shop.
The whole mess reminds me of going to a restaurant at a busy time. Even if service takes a long time, good staff will acknowledge your presence instead of ignoring you.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,781
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From: Foothills of NC
Remove the rocker arm to the valve in question. Measure lift while rotating the engine.
Remove rocker arm to a like valve, meaning, if the valve in question is intake, select another intake valve. Measure lift on that valve. Now you will know if the cam is bad or not. With a metal sheen in the oil, 99.9% it's the cam and lifter.
Remove rocker arm to a like valve, meaning, if the valve in question is intake, select another intake valve. Measure lift on that valve. Now you will know if the cam is bad or not. With a metal sheen in the oil, 99.9% it's the cam and lifter.
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
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Did you pull the push rod to inspect it yet? I thought I read that the engine supplier said the push rod would be burnt on the bottom if the cam lobe was bad. The metal sheen on the oil isn't a good sign...
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2013
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Good news! The warranty rep got right back to me this morning. They will get me a replacement engine, handled through my local store. Lots of hoops to jump through, but still better than being left to twist in the wind.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,997
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From: NE Ohio
what company reman is this? I dont remember from the other thread?