This will all pass. Soon there will be oil stored everywhere since no one is buying it. Kinda sounds like 2009-2013 all over again.

 

I don't know why people don't understand this. My company sells products that we buy from manufacturers. The cost of an item is not just the material, they also include labor, taxes, and all other associated fees/costs.
From there, they mark it up to us. If their taxes go up, the cost of the item goes up. We pass that along. If their taxes and our taxes go up...then both costs are added into the cost of the item before we mark it up.
The end user pays for it all, no matter how you slice it. Taxing corporations increases the cost to the end user.

I do feel corporations should pay taxes, but it is very misleading to say the average person won't see a tax increase by increasing taxes on corporations. For consumer products, they will see both, a direct and an indirect tax increase.
The indirect tax increases is the higher price of the item they buy. The direct tax increase is the additional sales tax they will pay since the item will cost more.

Also, the reason for summer and winter gas has to do with the volatility of the fuel blend, not BTU content.

 

Not only does the end consumer pay all the taxes rolled into the item, but think about all of the taxes there are rolled into each item we buy. From the time the raw material is brought out of the ground, every time it’s transported and refined, every step until it gets to the shelves is taxed. Oh, that property that the store shelves are on? Taxed. Why we pay taxes on our income when every single thing why buy has been taxed many times over is beyond me. Tax the rich? They will slow down buying things they don’t need, which means more working people making less, or no money.

My county is the only major metro left in the country with no toll roads. Very, very unpopular here. The last time there was an argument, the elected officials proposed toll roads for the affluent areas in a hope to get they majority of the population to vote for them. I made a very effective argument that toll roads taxed the working class and working poor, especially in the “affluent” areas. My argument was that the maids, lawn care, pool care, etc, etc people were going to have to pay those tolls over and over, maybe half a dozen times or more in a day as they go from job to job. They are in fierce competition with each other, so when they try to pass the expenses on, they get fired when another underbids them. In the end I argued that the lower income would pay tolls much more often than those who lived in those areas and paid once going to work and once coming home, if even that much.

Next attempt will be raising gas taxes at the pump. The same argument will apply. The big contract companies will raise their prices to cover the taxes (or tolls). The little guys will get put out of business.

 

We don't really have "toll roads" here. What we do have is toll lanes. During periods of high traffic, people pay a premium for the (presumably) faster toll lanes. ordinary schleps like me stay out of those lanes and deal with the delays. "Important" people (AKA rich) pay the fee to use the toll lanes. Some also have a sliding fee to increase the cost in times of very high traffic.

Not saying it's right, but it does, for the most part, tax the people more able to afford it.

 

It may be happening faster than any of us want to believe. Towing with an EV is still a major stumbling block, but I bet a huge proportion of the driving public will be happy with a 300-mile range EV for every day bopping around. I don't know what the percentage is, but in a couple of towns around here, you can't swing a cat without hitting a Tesla.

And today, there's this.

 

That’s all I’ve ever put in my 2016 5.0 since it was driven off the lot.
Shell V Power 93 octane.

 

​​​​​I don't know where you live but the country folks around me pretty much drive a 2500 dollar car from honest Charlie and in no way can they afford ev.and there are millions of good people just like that.
Im not bashing them there pretty cool and I have friends that own tesla's but if its out of range they pretty much fly

 

Meanwhile, Elon Musk made $36 billion. Just today. It takes me more than a week to make that much. Not saying how much more than a week though.

 

The majority made selling his carbon credits, not selling cars.

 

I agree. I was thinking why Ford would come out with a big block GAS engine like the 7.3 in what was it, 2020 or 2021, put all that R&D money, advertising, manufacturing retooling etc. When EV's are supposedly on the rise and going to dominate the market in a few short years to a decade? It doesn't make any sense...

 

They need to make enough EVs and PHEVs to even out on carbon credits. The winds of policy and politics will blow the other way one day. When the date draws close for all electric and it's clear that it is not viable, changes will have to be made in policy.

Once again, my take on this is allow the EVs to compete in the free market, rather than forcing by regulation and law. EVs are clearly the winner for commuter vehicles used mainly for short distance use. But everyone sees this from their own perspective and not the overall perspective. Someone who live predominantly in a large metro area and never travels may think that everyone should have an EV. Those who travel by automobile, have a truck they use for work or towing or those who live in distant rural ares and small towns would see no benefit from EV in their current state. If improvements come at the rate we can measure over the last decade, EVs will never be viable for those people when the deadlines come.

By the time that EVs are scheduled to be mandatory, the requirement will probably be watered down to apply to passenger cars and trucks under a certain GVWR. Hybrids could be required for a GVWR of say, 6000-7700. Then the 3/4 and 1 tons could be all gas or all diesel. If that happens, expect to see a lot of 8 lug full size SUV and "1/2" ton trucks running around 14-19 years from now.

So called "fossil fuels" (more accurately hydrocarbon fuels) aren't going anywhere in any of the lifetimes of anyone reading here. Oil has to be refined to produce the chemicals used in our daily lives and for all the plastic parts used in vehicle, even EV, production. It's used in or textiles, building materials, paints, medicine, "vegan leather", every aspect of our daily lives. none of use here could imagine a world without items made form the polymers derived from oil production. Trains, ships and planes still run on oil derived fuels and will long into the future. The fleet of ICE vehicles that will be sold up until, and beyond the deadlines will require fuel, as they will be on the roads for decades. When crude oil is refined, gasoline and diesel are part of the spectrum of distillates produced. You can't decide not to produce them. In the early 20th century, refiners didn't know what to do with the glut of gasoline that refining was producing. The fledgling auto industry was running engines on naphtha or alcohol, steam or electricity. Yes, electric vehicles existed in the 1910s. Henry Ford designed the Model T to run on alcohol so that people could make their own fuel. After meeting with oil executives, Ford decided to design his engines to run on gasoline.

 

I mostly agree with that with a few caveats. When electric semis actually start hitting the streets, we will know that the technology has progressed "enough". There are a couple of EV manufacturers who are claiming > 500 mile range now. There are at least a dozen "works in progress" to make a better watt/volume/weight battery. This has been a long time coming, and there's no guarantees, but when the inflection point comes (who knows, 3, 5, 10 years?), it will suddenly become obvious to most of us.

 

This really would never happen if they would report how dirty it is to make one of these vehicles and the batteries that have no way of being recycled.

 

Scott91370, you are spot on!!! But they (the media) will never do that. It don't fit there narrative.

 

That's not really true. They are well on their way to making those lithium batteries recyclable.